May 26, 2009 08:38
15 yrs ago
Italian term
Italy
law, philosophy & art history specialist
Native in: English
Works in: Italian to English, English
non pisciano mai fuori dalla tazza
May offend
Italian to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
idioms
From a novel; the narrator is describing his boss. The problems are
a) can anyone think of a similar idiom in English?
b) there's obviously a metaphorical meaning. In Sicily at least, and the author is Sicilian, "pisciare fora del rinale" (or similar local variants) means something like 'jumping to the wrong conclusion', being headstrong and overly impulsive. How can I maintain the literal sense and the metaphor?
c) any translation has to tie in with the 'non saprebbero pulire da soli' later in the sentence.
context:
E' il nuovo dirigente di sezione, uno di questi moderni funzionari che ***non pisciano mai fuori dalla tazza*** solo perché dopo non saprebbero pulire da soli. Più che onesti, obbedienti per mancanza di qualita.
Hope you can help with this further dose of toilet language!
a) can anyone think of a similar idiom in English?
b) there's obviously a metaphorical meaning. In Sicily at least, and the author is Sicilian, "pisciare fora del rinale" (or similar local variants) means something like 'jumping to the wrong conclusion', being headstrong and overly impulsive. How can I maintain the literal sense and the metaphor?
c) any translation has to tie in with the 'non saprebbero pulire da soli' later in the sentence.
context:
E' il nuovo dirigente di sezione, uno di questi moderni funzionari che ***non pisciano mai fuori dalla tazza*** solo perché dopo non saprebbero pulire da soli. Più che onesti, obbedienti per mancanza di qualita.
Hope you can help with this further dose of toilet language!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +1 | would never piss and miss |
Anthony Green
|
| 1 +3 | pissing outside the pot |
Tony M
|
| 3 +1 | would never dare to point Percy away from the porcelain |
Paul O'Brien
|
Change log
May 26, 2009 08:40: Tony M changed "Language pair" from "English" to "Italian to English"
Proposed translations
+1
1 hr
Anthony Green
Italy
Italy
Native in English
Italy
for beautiful and accurate texts
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: Italian to English, French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
32
Selected
would never piss and miss
I liked "pissing outside the pot" but the Google hits for that are mainly Latin languages or Dutch.
"piss and miss" as a Google string is OK - gets 800 hits, of which half seem to be relevant. One of them says "piss and miss the throne" tee hee.
To connect it more closely with his intentions, you could use the conditional phrase "would never piss and miss if he could help it"
"piss and miss" as a Google string is OK - gets 800 hits, of which half seem to be relevant. One of them says "piss and miss the throne" tee hee.
To connect it more closely with his intentions, you could use the conditional phrase "would never piss and miss if he could help it"
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Perfect, Anthony, especially phrasing the whole sentence the way you suggest. Thanks!"
+3
3 mins
pissing outside the pot
I have a faint recollection of this term actually being used in EN too... something my old Dad used to say...
But it may just be my memory playing tricks on me ;-(
But it may just be my memory playing tricks on me ;-(
Note from asker:
| thanks Tony. Was torn between this and Anthony's. In the end I thought it just sounded a bit old fashioned (the combination of piss and pot is very Sir Toby Belch!) |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Maria Vita Licata
25 mins
|
|
Grazie, Maria!
|
|
| agree |
Kevin Pendergast
: I think in this case (given the following sentence "Più che onesti, obbedienti...") the narrator is simply saying his boss doesn't break the rules, so "never piss outside the pot" seems to fit just fine
57 mins
|
|
Thanks, Will! I couldn't understand much of the rest, so was working in the dark a bit! Still, at least I wasn't "pissing in the wind" ;-)
|
|
| agree |
Anthony Green
: It sounds good, but my only doubt is how many readers would know it or understand that the pot is the toilet bowl. More such questions please, Simon!!
1 hr
|
|
Thanks, Anthony!
|
|
| agree |
carly kelly
: piss/pot is a common enough verb-noun collocation, so I reckon readers would certainly get it: "pot to piss in" "piss or get off the pot" etc.
5 hrs
|
|
Thanks, Carly! Yes, I think there are enough uses for it to be familiar; not least chamber-pot too, of course.
|
|
| disagree |
Mirra_
: not used. R that's not correct: in my opinion, *you* should prove it is used and that it is used in the way you suggest. Anyway, as a matter of fact the Ghits are just six and pertain to texts that seem to be written by not native English people. Just an
1 day 9 hrs
|
|
How can you possibly state that so categorically?! It IS used, I've HEARD it used... just try producing solid evidence that it is NEVER used, and never could be...
|
+1
2 hrs
Paul O'Brien
Argentina
Argentina
Native in English
Argentina
Legal and environment specialist, PhD
Native in: English 
Works in: Italian to English, Spanish to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
86
would never dare to point Percy away from the porcelain
half creative, i know, but then ... it is literature we're dealing with.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 days (2009-06-04 08:46:21 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
yeah, i was also very amused when i saw the term for the first time in the toilet at dublin airport. it was an ad for vodafone, if i remember correctly.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 days (2009-06-04 08:46:21 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
yeah, i was also very amused when i saw the term for the first time in the toilet at dublin airport. it was an ad for vodafone, if i remember correctly.
Note from asker:
| If I could give you points for bringing a smile to my face, I would ;-) |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: I'm not sure that the Percy/porcelain idiom is widely-known enough; and also, I wonder if 'dare' is really accurately reflecting the s/t?
5 hrs
|
| agree |
Anthony Green
: funny that, because I was aware of the Percy and porcelain idiom but not of "pissing outside the pot" (I trust that says nothing too profound about my habits!). Using "dare" is an interesting one, because it's in the subtext, but not explicit.
20 hrs
|
Discussion
I don't know if it does exist a real exact translation for this coloured Italian expression
but
please note that it has two meaning:
the first, very easy to get, is 'to make mistakes';
the second one, more subtle, concerns the ability to know (and respect) rules. Said in another way is the ability to 'stare al proprio posto' or 'never to go beyond said/unsaid limits'.
In the sense of being humble (and that's way the expression deals with piss and pot), knowing exactly how far one's ambition can go.
Hope it may help... :)<br><br>...also...<br>more precisely it is mistaking for arrogance and/or ambition<br>(but in such a stupid, far too much self-confident way that you can even assimilate it to one that is not able to control its peeing ;)