| Pages sur ce sujet: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | KudoZ per-day asking limits - good or bad? Auteur du fil: Henry Dotterer
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| Like the limits, but no lower, please...and multiple profiles? | Sep 18, 2005 |
Hello!
I've never quite hit my limit, but i've come very close on busy days when I'm checking several different texts. With just 5 questions from three different texts, it would be easy to reach my daily 15.
What I have found, though, is that it's made me more organised! If I know that I'll probably have a lot of questions, I can't leave them all to the last minute or I won't get to post them all! So that's a good thing for me, anyway.
I have also noticed f... See more Hello!
I've never quite hit my limit, but i've come very close on busy days when I'm checking several different texts. With just 5 questions from three different texts, it would be easy to reach my daily 15.
What I have found, though, is that it's made me more organised! If I know that I'll probably have a lot of questions, I can't leave them all to the last minute or I won't get to post them all! So that's a good thing for me, anyway.
I have also noticed fewer postings by people who have obviously take n on work they can't cope with and hope that someone will bail them out. That's another good thing.
On the negative side, Kudoz is much quieter lately - sometimes you can post a question and not get a single reply. And that NEVER used to happen. Perhaps people who hit their posting limits aren't visiting the boards until they know they can post more? Or are looking for answers on other sites? This wouldn't be a good thing...
Unless, of course, they're creating multiple profiles to use when they exceed their limits on one profile...? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mark Oliver 
Local time: 12:34
indonésien vers anglais
+ ...
| that is the problem | Sep 18, 2005 |
Hilary Davies wrote:
Unless, of course, they're creating multiple profiles to use when they exceed their limits on one profile...?
This is exactly what is happening, at least in one particular language pair that has no moderator, nor "squasher." It is why I am now turning off KudoZ notification again. A non-member is currently having a lengthy text translated into a Southeast Asian language, ten words at a time, using different profiles each time.
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mark oliver wrote:
This is exactly what is happening, at least in one particular language pair that has no moderator, nor "squasher." It is why I am now turning off KudoZ notification again. A non-member is currently having a lengthy text translated into a Southeast Asian language, ten words at a time, using different profiles each time.
And you're not reporting this to a moderator, any moderator...why?!?!
| | | | Claudia Iglesias
Chili
Local time: 15:34
Membre (2002)
espagnol vers français
+ ...
| To Mark and about multiple profiles | Sep 18, 2005 |
Multiple profiles are not allowed. Staff has the means to check whether anyone is using several profiles for asking more questions than allowed (or to agree with himself) and any suspected case is investigated.
Some pairs might not have a moderator, but you can contact any moderator when you're suspicious.
In case of proven fraud, this member can be banned for ever from ProZ.
Could you please at least say in which pair you have seen this problem?
Thanks
Claudia
mark oliver wrote:
This is exactly what is happening, at least in one particular language pair that has no moderator, nor "squasher." It is why I am now turning off KudoZ notification again. A non-member is currently having a lengthy text translated into a Southeast Asian language, ten words at a time, using different profiles each time.
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Mark Oliver
Local time: 12:34
indonésien vers anglais
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Hilary Davies wrote: mark oliver wrote:
This is exactly what is happening, at least in one particular language pair that has no moderator, nor "squasher." It is why I am now turning off KudoZ notification again. A non-member is currently having a lengthy text translated into a Southeast Asian language, ten words at a time, using different profiles each time.
And you're not reporting this to a moderator, any moderator...why?!?!
Sorry to give this incorrect impression -- I do report such things. My previous post was only ill-tempered whining, much to my present chagrin.
| | | | Mark Oliver
Local time: 12:34
indonésien vers anglais
+ ...
| the particulars are on their way. | Sep 19, 2005 |
Hi Claudia,
I have sent you the information. I inaccurately used the word "profiles" to describe the situation; it is instead an non-member using different names. I apologize for the error.
[quote]Claudia Iglesias wrote:
Multiple profiles are not allowed. Staff has the means to check whether anyone is using several profiles for asking more questions than allowed (or to agree with himself) and any suspected case is investigated.
Some pairs might not have a moderator, but you can contact any moderator when you're suspicious.
In case of proven fraud, this member can be banned for ever from ProZ.
Could you please at least say in which pair you have seen this problem?
Thanks
Claudia
[quote]
| | | | Claudia Iglesias
Chili
Local time: 15:34
Membre (2002)
espagnol vers français
+ ...
We checked the info you sent, it's obvious that there are 11 questions asked between Sept. 13th and today that belong to the same presentation about Indonesia. I susbscribed to the questions of that pair, I should notice any new one being asked (if I'm online).
But the problem is not only that one. The problem is that this person gets answers, and not only one. The questions are not for terms but whole sentences. I can understand that at the beginning people don't notice that it's a... See more We checked the info you sent, it's obvious that there are 11 questions asked between Sept. 13th and today that belong to the same presentation about Indonesia. I susbscribed to the questions of that pair, I should notice any new one being asked (if I'm online).
But the problem is not only that one. The problem is that this person gets answers, and not only one. The questions are not for terms but whole sentences. I can understand that at the beginning people don't notice that it's a single text, but after the third question this person should be unable to get answers. The reason is simple: this text is a job, it deserves being posted as a job. Jobs are more important and interesting than KudoZ, aren't they?
I hope the answerers read this forum too.
Regards
Claudia ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Jobs are more interesting, but... | Sep 20, 2005 |
Claudia Iglesias wrote:
Jobs are more important and interesting than KudoZ, aren't they?
Claudia
Jobs are more interesting, but KudoZ is free...
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KMPrice
Canada
Local time: 12:34
français vers anglais
| Jobs Platinum members left out in the cold | Sep 20, 2005 |
I'm in favour of limits, but I believe it should be 1/5/10/15 -- 10 being for Jobs (and perhaps Community) Platinum members.
Jobs Platinum members pay $70/year for our membership, so why should we have the same 5-question restriction as Non-paying members?
Community Platinum members, at $48/year, have the "Same daily limit on KudoZ questions as FULL platinum members (i.e. 15 instead of 5)"
Doesn't seem right.
[Edited at 2005-09-... See more I'm in favour of limits, but I believe it should be 1/5/10/15 -- 10 being for Jobs (and perhaps Community) Platinum members.
Jobs Platinum members pay $70/year for our membership, so why should we have the same 5-question restriction as Non-paying members?
Community Platinum members, at $48/year, have the "Same daily limit on KudoZ questions as FULL platinum members (i.e. 15 instead of 5)"
Doesn't seem right.
[Edited at 2005-09-20 19:44] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | No, don't agree | Sep 21, 2005 |
I've been a rather active member for a long time but had to cut down my presence becs of my workload.
I liked proz the way it was when I subscribed, abt 2 years ago. People asking questions that can be found in a dictionary serve the newcomers on the site. They can earn points in oder to bid for jobs. I rather have a restriction here, i.e. members beneath nbr 90000 refrain from answering... to give a chance to newcom... See more I've been a rather active member for a long time but had to cut down my presence becs of my workload.
I liked proz the way it was when I subscribed, abt 2 years ago. People asking questions that can be found in a dictionary serve the newcomers on the site. They can earn points in oder to bid for jobs. I rather have a restriction here, i.e. members beneath nbr 90000 refrain from answering... to give a chance to newcomers.
I totally disagree on limiting paying members. After all, why do we subscribe ? At this very moment, I have to translate a poker game, an agency begged me to translate it and as I work a lot for them, I accepted. I don't play poker, never have. There are 8 pages, to be turned in by tomorrow midday. The Kudoz glossary is not of much use. I have picked up a couple of glossaries on the net, but all termes used aren't in it, nor on Eurodicautom or the GDT.
If I can't ask more than 15 questions, how can I finish my translation ? Only if I go to other translators' sites, where there are no such restrictions ?
I did not subscribe to Proz in order to answer interesting/less interesting questions from other translators. I don't care whether the level has gone up or not. It is a tool for which we pay and as such, should remain as free as possible. If I buy a hammer, I dont want one that can only hit 10 nails a day ...:-)
If the main interest of the site disappears, why pay for a membership ?
Elisabeth ▲ Collapse
| | | | moken
Local time: 20:34
anglais vers espagnol
+ ...
| An old story | Sep 23, 2005 |
Hi Elizabeth,
Elisabeth Toda-v.Galen wrote:
At this very moment, I have to translate a poker game, an agency begged me to translate it and as I work a lot for them, I accepted. I don't play poker, never have. There are 8 pages, to be turned in by tomorrow midday. The Kudoz glossary is not of much use.
If I can't ask more than 15 questions, how can I finish my translation ?
Elisabeth
Thanks for your post, it's certainly given me lots of food for thought regarding Platinum member rights. However, I can't say I agree with most of what has been said.
I've been mulling over your post for a couple of days, partly because I wanted to express myself as gently as possible. So please forgive me if I sound harsh, I'll do my best not to.
One of the main issues Kudoz answerers have complained about repeatedly is that sometimes people take on jobs beyond their areas of expertise*. When one job merits 20 or 25 q's inside 24 hrs, that is precisely the impression delivered.
At least in my pair, open and repeated appeals to common sense, not answering etc. have been in vain and have led to many clashes between users.
Before the new limits, it was common place for moderators to request users not to ask more than 12 or 15 questions in a short lapse of time (sometimes you could see 18 or 20 coming in in under an hour).
From this point of view, what was previously an unwirtten rule has been effectively enforced...with a difference: Platinum users can still benefit from asking up to 15 questions whereas other can only ask 5 or 1, so I think it would be fair to say that your rights have been the least affected. Remember that any asker, plat, non-plat or non-member could previously reach the 'unwritten' 15 question limit.
To comment further, you speak of giving newcomers a chance. Practising with words that can be found in dictionaries is far more easily done picking a book up and randomly choosing words out of it. I daresay experience is of much higher value to any agency/client that Kudoz points. I'd say more jobs on the market gives them the chance to gain experience in a far better way than answering 'dictionary questions' on Kudoz.
A final point to be made: if Kudoz asking was previously free for all, not just Platinum users, how do the new restrictions reduce the value of your membership fees? You might argue that your payment is a charitable contribution in return for the fine site you can use, and I wouldn't dispute that. Somehow though, that doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of your reasoning.
Best regards and best of luck with your translation,
Álvaro  ))
*I understand your situation. I daresay most of us have at one time or another accepted a job like this 'as a favour'. I really don't think the limits are directed at people like you, but at those who accept these 'over their head' jobs as a general practice. I think the aim of ProZ is to benefit all users, Platinum members especially. Unfortunately, in this circumstance it seems yours is a case of 'collateral damage' caused by 'friendly fire'. It's a circumstance that undoubtedly ought to be considered.
| | | | | Caveat Emptor | Sep 23, 2005 |
Elisabeth Toda-v.Galen wrote:
an agency begged me to translate it and ... I accepted ... There are 8 pages, to be turned in by tomorrow midday.... If I can't ask more than 15 questions, how can I finish my translation?
You probably can't, and that should have been made clear when you were negotiating the terms for this job. When you were being begged to take this job, a number of facts needed to be stated explicitly as follows:
- I have no subject-matter knowledge of poker.
- The language used in the material is incomprehensible to me.
- I have no handy reference material to use.
- To learn the subject matter and familiarize myself with the jargon used in both source and target languages, I will need to invest some time using online resources (Googling, reading online how-to material, consulting with online peers who are familiar with the subject matter, etc.).
-The deadline is not only unrealistic and needs to be pushed backward, but also needs to be a soft deadline, as the the self-teaching endeavor I will need to undertake is time consuming and its outcome is unpredictable, in terms of both time and quality of translation.
- When all is said and done, the translation will still need to undergo thorough review by someone who is familiar with the subject matter to check for expected blunders. This is no false modesty, but sober realism.
With this caveat emptor, you can post your questions, 15 per day (which is still high, in my opinion) and deliver your project without violating the terms of your agreement.
Elisabeth Toda-v.Galen wrote:
If the main interest of the site disappears, why pay for a membership ?
Elisabeth
The main interest of the site did not disappear or even change, but was made clearer and more definite in response to overwhelming demands by members.
[Edited at 2005-09-23 20:46]
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| Sound advice | Sep 23, 2005 |
This is sound sense - I really wish more people would bear this in mind when clients "beg" them to do jobs. It does happen - in my personal experience about once a week. Only by making the information below clear to agencies and clients will we help to eradicate the view that translation work is easy, and can be done by someone with little to no subject-matter knowledge in double-quick time. The translator (the one with any conscience, at least!) ends up tearing their hair out to try and produce... See more This is sound sense - I really wish more people would bear this in mind when clients "beg" them to do jobs. It does happen - in my personal experience about once a week. Only by making the information below clear to agencies and clients will we help to eradicate the view that translation work is easy, and can be done by someone with little to no subject-matter knowledge in double-quick time. The translator (the one with any conscience, at least!) ends up tearing their hair out to try and produce a result worth paying for. The translator without a conscience blithely produces a result not worth paying for. In not following this type of advice and educating agencies, we are only doing ourselves and our profession a disservice.
When you were being begged to take this job, a number of facts needed to be stated explicitly as follows:
- I have no subject-matter knowledge of poker.
- The language used in the material is incomprehensible to me.
- I have no handy reference material to use.
- To learn the subject matter and familiarize myself with the jargon used in both source and target languages, I will need to invest some time using online resources (Googling, reading online how-to material, consulting with online peers who are familiar with the subject matter.
-The deadline is not only unrealistic and needs to be pushed backward, but also needs to be a soft deadline, as the the self-teaching endeavor I will need to undertake is time consuming and its outcome is unpredictable, in terms of both time and quality of translation.
- When all is said and done, the translation will still need to undergo thorough review by someone who is familiar with the subject matter to check for expected blunders. This is no false modesy, but sober realism.
With this caveat emptor, you can post your questions, 15 per day (which is still high, in my opinion) and deliver your project without violating the terms of your agreement.
▲ Collapse
| | | | | Too simple ... | Sep 24, 2005 |
Álvaro Blanch wrote:
One of the main issues Kudoz answerers have complained about repeatedly is that sometimes people take on jobs beyond their areas of expertise. When one job merits 20 or 25 q's inside 24 hrs, that is precisely the impression delivered.
The remedy to thoses complaints of Kudoz answerers is quite simple : all they have to do is stop answering, there will always be people to answer in their place. This is where everybody's freedom comes into the picture.. We also had the possibility to sqhash the question in case of site abuse.
To comment further, you speak of giving newcomers a chance. Practising with words that can be found in dictionaries is far more easily done picking a book up and randomly choosing words out of it.
Don't forget that easy questions are often asked by people from the "outside", not translators. If I come across a word, lets say in Czech, in one of my English or Dutch translations, it might be a very easy word, but I don't have a dictionary in Czech, and I would like to understand the word. Ofcourse I could find it in one of the Internet DB's, but then I only have the litteral translation,or even several different translations, without the "further explanation" that a real person could give. But the Czech colleagues could also say : just open a dictionary !
Besides, I think it is also a good exercice for a newcomer to learn how to use the Internet resources.
I daresay experience is of much higher value to any agency/client that Kudoz points. I'd say more jobs on the market gives them the chance to gain experience in a far better way than answering 'dictionary questions' on Kudoz.
But a recently graduated translator has no experience, and the only way he/she can bid on the Proz jobs, is with the points earned by answering questions. As for the number of jobs on the market, unfortunately it is not us who will change this...
A final point to be made: if Kudoz asking was previously free for all, not just Platinum users, how do the new restrictions reduce the value of your membership fees?
Because it puts restrictions on paying members, which I don't find normal.
I understand your situation. I daresay most of us have at one time or another accepted a job like this 'as a favour'. I really don't think the limits are directed at people like you
I'm sure it isn't but people like me are still touched by this restriction.
Anyway, I finished my translation in time, and only asked 2 or 3 questions. I mainly gave this situation as an example.
Only by making the information below clear to agencies and clients will we help to eradicate the view that translation work is easy, and can be done by someone with little to no subject-matter knowledge in double-quick time. The translator (the one with any conscience, at least!)
Don't worry, when you are in the translation business for as I long as I am, you can translate "almost anything"... without being "totally inconscious"
Elisabeth
[Edited at 2005-09-24 22:52]
[Edited at 2005-09-24 22:55]
| | | | Sam Berner
Australie
Local time: 05:34
Membre (2003)
anglais vers arabe
+ ...
| Quality or quantity? | Sep 25, 2005 |
willmatter wrote:
Less traffic is bad for all of us in almost every way.
At the risk of sounding very elitist, which I admit I am, are we on Proz to maintain quality or to enhance quantity. I have read this comment on a few of the "contra" postings, and I am probably missing some point here.
I strongly support the changes. After one particulary bad night, when a bunch of high school kids from somewhere posted over 30 questions on Kudoz - all of which were so simple they could have been found in their Lonely Planet phrase book - I wouldn't mind if unlogged "members of the public" who have no emails, can't be followed up, can't be bothered to provide context, etc. were actually banned from posting. That means, making some more changes there where explanations are to be provided and force the person to disclose at a minimum their email address.
Then again, maybe I am too hard on some. But for me Proz stands for Professionals, and I would like to see that maintained. It takes time and effort to be one. For less than that, I can go for a stubby to the local truckie pub. Sorry for my Australianisms.
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