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谁会讲普通话？ Thread poster: Phil Hand
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想當年，國語選定大會之上，粵語以三票之差敗給了北京話，否則現在的國語就是粵語。
現在的國語語音含一些胡化的成分，用以誦讀古詩詞，無論聲調韻味，當然不及粵語。
我很喜歡粵語，但不喜歡一些不合正統文字釋義的詞，如邊度之類。
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wherestip 
United States
Local time: 06:11
Chinese to English
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Kenneth Woo wrote:
想當年，國語選定大會之上，粵語以三票之差敗給了北京話，否則現在的國語就是粵語。
If you don't mind me asking, what year was that?
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 06:11
Chinese to English
+ ...
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/現代標準漢語
現代標準漢語是一種廣泛通行於中國汉族地区與全球漢族社會的語言，於1923年中華民國教育部国语统一筹备会第五次会议決定基於現代中國北方官话的白话文語法和北京話語音制定[2]，1932年經中華民國教育部頒佈《国音常用字汇》後，被採納為中國的官方語言，當前在中华人民共和国、中華民國、新加坡等國均為官方語言之一，也是东南亚及其他海外華人群体广泛採用的共通口語或書面語；且作為聯合國六種官方工作語言之一[3]，成為國際人士學習汉语的主要參照。其称呼与定义因地而异，中国大陆和港澳地區称其为「普通話」，臺灣稱其為「國語」，在东南亚與漢語社群以外地區則稱為「華語」。
因地域的不同，中国大陆的「普通話」、臺灣的「國語」与东南亚地区的「华语」在語音與詞彙上存在一些差別，尽管可理解为受到各地語言腔调的影响，然而在正式的書寫語法上相對統一。而在世界各地都出現了很多現代標準漢語的腔調變體，例如臺灣華語（臺式國語，受台語音調影響）、新馬華語（受閩粵及馬來語、英语影響），身為漢語起源地的中國大陸則有更多腔調變體（相對於規範普通話，通稱為「地方普通話」），如四川普通話、南寧普通話、廣式普通話等等都帶有本地方言的腔調。
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I wonder if it went as far back as 1923?
[Edited at 2014-10-04 15:24 GMT]
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Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 19:11
English to Chinese
+ ...
Kenneth Woo wrote:
想當年，國語選定大會之上，粵語以三票之差敗給了北京話，否則現在的國語就是粵語。
現在的國語語音含一些胡化的成分，用以誦讀古詩詞，無論聲調韻味，當然不及粵語。
我很喜歡粵語，但不喜歡一些不合正統文字釋義的詞，如邊度之類。
虽然我听粤语讲话很吃力。
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QHE
United States
Local time: 07:11
English to Chinese
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记得有次看论坛里的笑话，Zhoudan 发的这个, 把我笑得前仰马翻, 现在再看，笑力 依然很高。
Zhoudan wrote:
教两个宝贝女儿背诗, 陆游的「卧春」古诗。略带山东口音
《卧春》:
暗梅幽闻花，
臥枝伤恨底，
遙闻臥似水，
易透达春绿。
岸似绿，
岸似透绿，
岸似透黛绿。
轮到孩子，竟成了：
《我蠢》:
俺沒有文化，
我智商很低，
要问我是谁?
一头大蠢驴。
俺是驴，
俺是头驴，
俺是头呆驴。”
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/31839-不翻譯時說笑話its_the_happy_hour_for_jokes-page49.html#732841
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 06:11
Chinese to English
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| Seems like a tall tale | Oct 4, 2014 |
投票轶闻
网络流传西南官话、吴语、粤语以“一票之差”败给北京话，差点当选为现代标准汉语。然而，北京音自清末以来就是官方音，无论是中华民国还是中华人民共和国政府都从未以投票形式决定官方音 。投票传言的来源之一是1913年（民国2年）2月15日由中华民国教育部国语统一筹备会举行的读音统一大会，会上以一省一票的机制对6500个字的“国音”进行投票审定，但并无将任何方言票选为国语的议程；另一来源则是1955年由中国科学院举行的现代汉语规范问题学术会议，惟会上代表一致赞成将北京音定为官方音，亦没有投票。
... from the link I provided above.
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Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 19:11
English to Chinese
+ ...
QHE wrote: 记得有次看论坛里的笑话，Zhoudan 发的这个, 把我笑得前仰马翻, 现在再看，笑力 依然很高。 Zhoudan wrote:
教两个宝贝女儿背诗, 陆游的「卧春」古诗。略带山东口音
《卧春》:
暗梅幽闻花，
臥枝伤恨底，
遙闻臥似水，
易透达春绿。
岸似绿，
岸似透绿，
岸似透黛绿。
轮到孩子，竟成了：
《我蠢》:
俺沒有文化，
我智商很低，
要问我是谁?
一头大蠢驴。
俺是驴，
俺是头驴，
俺是头呆驴。” http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/31839-不翻譯時說笑話its_the_happy_hour_for_jokes-page49.html#732841
也许会说，现代人真是太有才啦！
[Edited at 2014-10-05 08:35 GMT]
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 19:11
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
这个说法在闽南一带很普遍，但实际情况并没那么简单：
闽南语的文白异读差异非常大，几乎可以看成两种不同的语音系统...一般认为白话音保存了中古前期古无轻唇音的现象，文读是后世受到中古北方话影响而产生的。
zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%96%87%E7%99%BD%E5%BC%82%E8%AF%BB
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一个语言有听说读写四个方面，那个统计视乎只提到了说，我相信中国会有90%+ 的人能听懂普通话，70%+的人能读和写（这个不是因为普通话/简体字不普及，而是因为有文盲），按那个统计有70%的人会说普通话，只是说有10%的人说的够标准，我估计我是不被统计在那10%范围内的，虽然我离开东北快20年了，我的普通话和英语都有东北口音，唱卡拉OK都有。哈哈
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he-li wrote:
儒勒.凡尔纳的小说《格兰特船长的儿女》中，有一个做事很马虎的学者，本来他要学西班牙语，结果由于粗心大意，误学了葡萄牙语（或者也可能正相反）。可是到达了中途某一个地方，他发现自己学错了语言，但是仍然只用很短的时间就和当地人用那个他没有学的语言交流起来了。
以前读到这段的时候，我就想：这两种语言的差别大概比我们的方言的差别还要小。
Here's a post from the ongoing Romanian/Russian thread:
"As far as I know you have East-Slavonic languages and West-Slavonic. The claim [that a Russian speaker can understand another language] makes sense if the applicant knows languages which belong to the same language family, say Russian and Ukranian. A native of Russian can understand Polish (a little). Russian is Slavonic and Romanian is of Latin origin. So, this claim is nonsense.
What makes sense, is that if you find time and study the languages of the same language family, you will assimilate the apparented language as lot faster.
If you know Spanish for example, you will be able to read, understand and answer a Portuguese speaker in Spanish. The same is true for Italian. I've recently met a Romanian and we were able to conversate: he in Romanian, I in Spanish."
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Rita Pang
Canada
Local time: 07:11
Member (2011)
Chinese to English
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Moderator of this forum | Um, not necessarily | Oct 5, 2014 |
jyuan_us wrote: Rita Pang wrote:
但当一个方言在演变下开始加入自己的地方特色,长久下去会演变成一个独立方言。 [Edited at 2014-10-03 21:10 GMT]
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Rita Pang
Canada
Local time: 07:11
Member (2011)
Chinese to English
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Moderator of this forum | Not quite - spanish vs. portuguese | Oct 5, 2014 |
he-li wrote:
以前读到这段的时候，我就想：这两种语言的差别大概比我们的方言的差别还要小。
As a Portuguese speaker who has backpacked quite a bit in Spanish-speaking countries, I can tell you that it's not quite the case.
Indeed, being able to speak Portuguese made my trip easier; I can just talk to bus drivers, store owners, restaurant owners etc and 80% of the time get what I am looking for (info/price/etc). I can usually have a conversation about facts of life etc with a Spanish speaker with little trouble. That being said, accents make a HUGE difference; I had SO MUCH trouble while travelling in Ecuador as I simply could not decipher what they were saying; I loved being in Colombia and literally felt like a veil has lifted since I could UNDERSTAND SO MUCH MORE. In Argentina, you'll constantly find hordes of Brazilians doing days and weeks of vacation in Argentina knowing only so much as an "hola".
That being said, since the two languages are similar enough, there are many "false friends" in the language, which often makes it VERY hard to distinguish, remember and be sure NOT to make mistakes of such kinds (only advanced learners would be sure to avoid those mistakes every time). For example, in some regions, "pegar" means to shoot, whereas in Portuguese (BR) it means "to take" (such as take a bus; so one time my friend got made fun of by Mexicans for saying "I am going to shoot a bus" for "eu vou pegar um onibus"). Obviously, it's still easy enough to learn Spanish if you're a PT speaker, and vice versa, but it still does takes time to master the difference between the two.
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 07:11
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Rita Pang wrote: jyuan_us wrote: Rita Pang wrote:
但当一个方言在演变下开始加入自己的地方特色,长久下去会演变成一个独立方言。 [Edited at 2014-10-03 21:10 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-10-05 09:02 GMT]
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Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 19:11
English to Chinese
+ ...
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