| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53] > | Ten common myths about translation quality
|
|---|
| | Tatty 
Local time: 07:43
Spanish to English
+ ...
| ATA standards | Jul 30, 2013 |
Or IoL or EU standards. Take your pick. We have to meet these requirements, so I don't really see the conflict of interests myself. As many people have suggested to you, you should try to gain accreditation from the relevant body in your part of the world for your non-native language and take it from there.
Sworn or official translators exist in many countries. I'm sworn for English by the Spanish FA Ministry so I can produce into Spanish translations. But I don't, as I believe tha... See more Or IoL or EU standards. Take your pick. We have to meet these requirements, so I don't really see the conflict of interests myself. As many people have suggested to you, you should try to gain accreditation from the relevant body in your part of the world for your non-native language and take it from there.
Sworn or official translators exist in many countries. I'm sworn for English by the Spanish FA Ministry so I can produce into Spanish translations. But I don't, as I believe that the standard is a pure fantasy. Not only that, surely it is better to have the Spaniards translate into their own language and me into mine - a more efficient use of resources. Moreover, the aim of these "official" translations is to produce legal effects only within Spain. The translations I perform are usually for use outside of Spain or to post on the Internet, so the Spanish national standard is not relevant. When you move into the international sphere, international standards apply. ▲ Collapse
| | | |
Tatty wrote:
As many people have suggested to you, you should try to gain accreditation from the relevant body in your part of the world for your non-native language and take it from there.
This would be much more valuable than just a Proz.com certification. Proz is just a commercial site and not a professional organization. Even if people with 2 natives languages are not certified here on Proz, having a ATA/ITI/AITI/IoL (or whatever) certification in both languages would allow to prove the level of expertise when, for example, applying for jobs here.
[Edited at 2013-07-30 13:21 GMT]
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Deletion requested by poster | | Easier to assess interpreting skills | Jul 30, 2013 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote: Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
I'm somewhat bemused that after last summer's mammoth thread you aren't aware that these are already a possibility. I hope José won't mind if I use him as an example, since he has several times openly declared and discussed the fact that he is not a native speaker of English. Nevertheless, he believes his proficiency to be such that he can count himself as one. José therefore declares that he has two native languages (Portuguese and English) and in turn qualifies for any jobs where the client requires an English native speaker. If that's what you want, the site needn't change a thing. I'd like to clarify this situation, since I used this fact as evidence for Proz to grant me the privilege of having two "native" languages on my profile. I am a sworn translator/interpreter between English and Portuguese, licensed by the Brazilian government. There are about 3,000 like me, certified for an array of 22 languages. A few are licensed for 2, fewer for 3 languages, however these are indeed very rare. Details on how it works are available on these pages.
I think the language proficiency is much more clear, right away, in interpreting, than in translation. If you are a conference or a court interpreter, it may take one time sometimes for the interpreter to withdraw from the profession, even if just temporarily, if they find out that they cannot interpret. It is much easier to asses the proficiency of interpreters because you see right away what you've got.
I also really admire some people, if there really are people like that, who having lived for 30 years outside of their country of origin, or where their L1 is spoken, still retain perfect competence -- it is almost impossible.
[Edited at 2013-07-30 13:45 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
| There are no certified translators, or ATA certified, requirements in the US | Jul 30, 2013 |
Tatty wrote:
Or IoL or EU standards. Take your pick. We have to meet these requirements, so I don't really see the conflict of interests myself. As many people have suggested to you, you should try to gain accreditation from the relevant body in your part of the world for your non-native language and take it from there.
Sworn or official translators exist in many countries. I'm sworn for English by the Spanish FA Ministry so I can produce into Spanish translations. But I don't, as I believe that the standard is a pure fantasy. Not only that, surely it is better to have the Spaniards translate into their own language and me into mine - a more efficient use of resources. Moreover, the aim of these "official" translations is to produce legal effects only within Spain. The translations I perform are usually for use outside of Spain or to post on the Internet, so the Spanish national standard is not relevant. When you move into the international sphere, international standards apply.
Only if you are a court interpreter you may have to be certified, or approved-- this is the only exception, but interpreting is really a different profession.
Some companies may simply trust you more, if you passed various exams, but there are no requirements like that.
There is no difference between ATA certification and Proz certification -- perhaps just the price. I think ATA charges over $500 and you have to go their testing places which is quite inconvenient, and sort of like going to the dentist.
[Edited at 2013-07-30 13:59 GMT]
| | | | Tatty
Local time: 07:43
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Strange remarks | Jul 30, 2013 |
It is both a translator's and interpreter's job to maintain their native language skills top-notch. That is our job. If you spend 10-15 years matching phrases, expressions, read some - only some - publications in your native language it is really not very difficult at all. You work on these skills everyday. This is your bread and butter, you cannot afford to let your language skills slip.
BTW, there may not be a specific standard in the US, but agencies must employ some type of sta... See more It is both a translator's and interpreter's job to maintain their native language skills top-notch. That is our job. If you spend 10-15 years matching phrases, expressions, read some - only some - publications in your native language it is really not very difficult at all. You work on these skills everyday. This is your bread and butter, you cannot afford to let your language skills slip.
BTW, there may not be a specific standard in the US, but agencies must employ some type of standard otherwise anyone would be able to translate... If there was a problem with a translation and the company decided to sue the agency, it would have to cough up a lot of money if it couldn't prove that the translator is qualified by reference to some type of standard. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | If you still have interest in that language, after some have basically butchered it. | Jul 30, 2013 |
I have absolutely no interest in contemporary Polish slang, and although I read some poetry and literary magazines or journals with pleasure, almost no-one could make me read many other things. I think I understand contemporary -- the 21st century Russian -- better than Polish due to exposure, and interest in Russian literature. Russian, also, has not changed that much over the last 30 years. In Polish it is sometimes hard to tell what means what anymore, especially after the EU adjustments of t... See more I have absolutely no interest in contemporary Polish slang, and although I read some poetry and literary magazines or journals with pleasure, almost no-one could make me read many other things. I think I understand contemporary -- the 21st century Russian -- better than Polish due to exposure, and interest in Russian literature. Russian, also, has not changed that much over the last 30 years. In Polish it is sometimes hard to tell what means what anymore, especially after the EU adjustments of the vocabulary.
Don't take me wrong-- I speak pretty good Polish, and Russian as well, however, I could not write any academic papers in it -- yes, I really doubt I could. I understand 95% of the language without using any dictionaries.
As to accents, for example -- accent is not the only indicator of being a native speaker, if you like this term. I have a very good accent in German, and if I said just a few sentences -- especially translated beforehand, many people would take me for a native speaker, but I cannot even translate form that language -- perhaps just for my own needs-- basic knowledge.
The last time I wrote something more serious in Polish was probably when I was 15. (more than a quarter of a century ago). So, it is not really that simple to be able to write in a few languages.
[Edited at 2013-07-30 15:58 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 11:13
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
Texte Style wrote: Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: Starting endless threads about the unfairness of this and that will definitely raise awareness, but it does nothing in concrete to change your status or other people's status in your situation. Edited for lack of coffee...  [Edited at 2013-07-30 08:30 GMT] With you all the way Giovanni, (as you might see if you look back at what I posted this weekend, only approved on Monday). Just one minor quibble with the quote above (once a proofreader, always a proofreader  ), I would replace "starting" with "hijacking" or "monopolising" 
That would be encroaching on the editor's turf and not strictly proof-reading, just as this post is not strictly on topic for this thread and is therefore an encroachment on this thread.
[Edited at 2013-07-30 16:25 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
| The misstatement of the year | Jul 30, 2013 |
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
There is no difference between ATA certification and Proz certification -- perhaps just the price. I think ATA charges over $500 and you have to go their testing places which is quite inconvenient, and sort of like going to the dentist.
[Edited at 2013-07-30 13:59 GMT]
No difference?
Obviously, anybody can say anything then, like any of the following statements:
- "a mouse and an elephant weight about the same"
- "human feces and roses smell about the same"
- "a victim of rape and murder is as guilty as her attacker"
It has been told a billion times: ProZ is not a professional entity; it is a commercial enterprise, nothing else. ATA is a professional association.
No difference? I am astonished. You could have not put at the same level two entities more opposite in nature, goals, structure, etc., than ProZ and the ATA, especially regarding professional matters (like the certification process), including the use of the word "professional".
[Edited at 2013-07-30 15:48 GMT]
| | | | | Well, there might be a difference between Oxford, or other prestigious instiution exams | Jul 30, 2013 |
and Proz, but not really ATA and Proz -- I doubt there is much of a difference. Among more commercial entities these two are probably among the moist prestigious ones, am I wrong?
There are many nice translation associations, clubs, and caffes, which does not make any of them an authority on translation. ATA is just one of them -- a nice association.
[Edited at 2013-07-30 15:52 GMT]
| | | | | Where do you see any likeness at all between ProZ and ATA? | Jul 30, 2013 |
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
Well, there might be a difference between Oxford, or other prestigious instiution exams and Proz, but not really ATA and Proz -- I doubt there is much of a difference. Among more commercial entities these two are probably among the moist prestigious ones, am I wrong?
There are many nice translation associations, clubs,and caffes, which does not make any of them an authority on translation.ATA is just one of them -- a nice association.
[Edited at 2013-07-30 15:48 GMT]
Can you kindly explain where you see any likeness at all, however remote, between ProZ and the ATA?
| | | | | Both sites are professional, commercial sites | Jul 30, 2013 |
Both deal with professional translation. Both have professional translators as their members .Both charge membership fees (although you can get a free membership at Proz. I don't really think you can get a free membership at ATA, perhaps just some kind of free benefits, or free registration). Both issue certificates. You have to pay for taking the exams -- at both sites. They are very similar -- Proz is less expensive, and has more work, even though some of the job offers don't offer reasonable ... See more Both deal with professional translation. Both have professional translators as their members .Both charge membership fees (although you can get a free membership at Proz. I don't really think you can get a free membership at ATA, perhaps just some kind of free benefits, or free registration). Both issue certificates. You have to pay for taking the exams -- at both sites. They are very similar -- Proz is less expensive, and has more work, even though some of the job offers don't offer reasonable rates, but still. At least there are some. jobs listed, and some useful for translators subjects discussed.
Genuinely academic associations require, usually, three publications, and their fees, or dues rather, are nominal-- like $15 a year.
[Edited at 2013-07-30 16:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| More on ATA certification | Jul 30, 2013 |
I am not going to question the value of ProZ Certified Translators. I am one of them (EN>ES). I am also an ATA Certified Translator, also EN>ES. But both are different animals.
Given the type of translation (mainly legal translation) I do, often I am contacted by agencies seeking certified translators to work for the Federal Government. All these agencies that have contacted me listed the type of certifications the Government would accept. ATA was always included. I have yet to see ... See more I am not going to question the value of ProZ Certified Translators. I am one of them (EN>ES). I am also an ATA Certified Translator, also EN>ES. But both are different animals.
Given the type of translation (mainly legal translation) I do, often I am contacted by agencies seeking certified translators to work for the Federal Government. All these agencies that have contacted me listed the type of certifications the Government would accept. ATA was always included. I have yet to see ProZ Certified Translator being listed. In a very real sense, ATA certification is slowly becoming a functional equivalent to the “sworn translator”certification existing in other countries.
If you believe I am exaggerating, please see the following excerpt:
Obtaining a Translation Certificate from the County Clerk
California Government Code Section 27293 authorizes the County Clerk to issue a Translation Certificate upon verification the English translation of a foreign language document that must be recorded was performed by a certified or registered court interpreter, or an accredited translator registered with the American Translators Association.
http://www.lavote.net/GENERAL/PDFS/INTERPRETER_TRANSLATOR_SEARCHES.pdf ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The government does not require any certfications -- only their own tests | Jul 30, 2013 |
and clearance. They don't trust anyone, usually. Most likely the outsourcers make up the requirements. The California law is not based on any federal law. It might not even be a law -- just a recommendation.
[Edited at 2013-07-30 16:32 GMT]
| | | | | regarding unverified second native language | Jul 30, 2013 |
Enrique Cavalitto wrote: Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
While anyone can declare two languages as native, the moment you do it, both your languages will get unverified. And I understand it is not easy at proz.com to get your second language verified.
ProZ.com job restrictions are based on declared native language.
You can declare one or two native languages.
ProZ.com plans to verify native languages in the future, but no programs or deadlines are in place yet.
In preparation for these plans, the native languages of members who declared only one NL appear 'verified' while in all other cases (non-members and/or double native languages) they look 'unverified', but this difference has no impact on job restrictions.
This applies both to jobs posted in the site and to directory searches.
Regards,
Enrique
Just wanted to make the point that it was discussed in the forums last year that many had declared and still display two native languages in their profiles, of which one is often English but that many native and even non-native English speakers in the forum threads had the impression, based on viewing text and other information in these profiles, that it was highly unlikely that English was indeed one of the claimants' native languages.
Although I have no problem with letting anyone claim two native languages when they first register at Proz.com, I would like to see this status limited to a certain period of time after which, since no verification process is in place, the user or member should have to choose between one of these declared languages and his/her profile page should then only display one native language. Otherwise, it clearly allows anyone to claim English or any other language as their second native language, for an unlimited period of time, when in fact it might not be. This seems unfair to translators who certainly have an advanced knowledge of their second, non-native language but decided, as they should, to stick to the truth and not report it as their second native language.
I don't see any point in keeping two unverified native languages forever. I would like to see only verified native languages displayed in the long run. If certain exceptions for regions or individuals with multiple native languages seem warranted and declaring two native languages as verified native languages should be allowed, then I would suggest an appropriate application form as I have suggested a few pages ago.
Could you consider adding this time limit for displaying two native languages in the near future or at least forward my ideas to those staff members who work on finding solutions with regard to verifying native languages? An alternative would be to let everyone display only one native language as long as it cannot be determined that he/she really has two native languages.
Thank you.
Bernhard
[Edited at 2013-07-30 17:34 GMT]
add-on: reposted as separate post
[Edited at 2013-07-30 17:57 GMT]
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Ten common myths about translation quality | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
| | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
