Glossary entry (derived from question below)
German term or phrase:
Würdepathos
English translation:
oppressive dignity
Added to glossary by
Rachel Ward
Sep 23, 2008 19:55
15 yrs ago
German term
United Kingdom
For the Love of Language
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English
Würdepathos
German to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
History
This is from a life of the Empress Elisabeth of Austria:
Die schöne sechzehnjährige Prinzessin, von einer Laune des Zufalls aus ihrer Märchenwelt und der Phantasielandschaft der Wittelsbacher entführt, wurde als Gattin ihres Cousins, des Kaisers Franz Joseph, in ein Dasein von Konflikten, Pein und tiefstem Leid verstrickt. Die Ehe, der wesensfremde Hof der Lothringer, die Mutter
Franz Josephs, Staatsräson und **Würdepathos** nahmen die blutjunge, romantische Prinzessin wie feindliche Mauern gefangen. Elisabeth sucht der Ehe und
dem Hof zu entfliehen, ohne doch den Entschluß zur
Befreiung und die Freiheit selbst zu finden."
I can't really get my head around this term at all and google is not being my friend at the moment. Any help?!
Die schöne sechzehnjährige Prinzessin, von einer Laune des Zufalls aus ihrer Märchenwelt und der Phantasielandschaft der Wittelsbacher entführt, wurde als Gattin ihres Cousins, des Kaisers Franz Joseph, in ein Dasein von Konflikten, Pein und tiefstem Leid verstrickt. Die Ehe, der wesensfremde Hof der Lothringer, die Mutter
Franz Josephs, Staatsräson und **Würdepathos** nahmen die blutjunge, romantische Prinzessin wie feindliche Mauern gefangen. Elisabeth sucht der Ehe und
dem Hof zu entfliehen, ohne doch den Entschluß zur
Befreiung und die Freiheit selbst zu finden."
I can't really get my head around this term at all and google is not being my friend at the moment. Any help?!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +2 | oppressive dignity |
Ken McKerrow
|
| 4 | with a great feeling of dignity |
James Girard
|
| 4 | the burden of court protocol |
debhubb (X)
|
| 4 | courtly decorum |
Stephen Roche
|
| 3 | poingancy of dignity |
Inge Meinzer
|
| 3 | pomp and circumstance |
Ingeborg Gowans (X)
|
| 3 | ceremonial/courtly spectacle/ostentation |
Helen Shiner
|
Change log
May 11, 2009 18:33: Rachel Ward Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+2
1 hr
Ken McKerrow
Canada
Canada
Native in English
Canada
German>English for Law, IP and Business
Native in: English 
Works in: German to English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Selected
oppressive dignity
Just a poetically inclined suggestion; the source text is rather poetic though, how it all these things close in on her like so many walls..
there are also some google hits for "oppressive dignity" that aren't too far off your mark..
best luck
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-09-23 21:05:17 GMT)
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"...how all these things..."
no 'it"..there's the poetic, then there's the typo..
there are also some google hits for "oppressive dignity" that aren't too far off your mark..
best luck
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-09-23 21:05:17 GMT)
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"...how all these things..."
no 'it"..there's the poetic, then there's the typo..
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Will probably combine several answers as suggested, but "oppressive" will definitely be in there!"
17 mins
with a great feeling of dignity
'Würdepathos' is not actually a word in German, but, that's never stopped German authors from making up their own from other words.
That word is not actually defined anywhere I can find it, but, that's my best guess.
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Note added at 22 mins (2008-09-23 20:18:31 GMT)
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Or, maybe even 'passionate dignity' if that fits better with the rest of it.
That word is not actually defined anywhere I can find it, but, that's my best guess.
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Note added at 22 mins (2008-09-23 20:18:31 GMT)
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Or, maybe even 'passionate dignity' if that fits better with the rest of it.
35 mins
Inge Meinzer
United States
United States
Native in German
&
English
United States
Legal and technical translations
Native in: German (Variant: Germany) 
, English (Variant: US)
Works in: German to English, German
poingancy of dignity
as I understand it, the conflict is between reason and emotion and the latter is not a happy one - otherwise there would not be the drama ...
54 mins
pomp and circumstance
ybe a little freer, but Würdepathos hasa negative connotation here; see Helen Shiner's comments. and it reminds of Diana (as she also p[ointed out). So maybe this might work here in this context
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Helen Shiner
: This is definitely in the right direction, but this term has such positive connotations in the UK generally, that it might be best to avoid it./It is just difficult to get past Elgar / Last Night of the Proms. It can have negative uses, but mostly not.
12 mins
|
|
o.k. I thought it could also point into the other direction ;(
|
1 hr
Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Arts/Academic translator - Art historian
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
139
ceremonial/courtly spectacle/ostentation
I choose 'spectacle' because it has positive and negative connotations depending on whose standpoint is being represented. These are just words really thrown in in the hope of landing on something appropriate.
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-09-23 20:59:33 GMT)
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Maybe 'the ostentation of courtly protocol'?
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-09-23 21:00:13 GMT)
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Or rather 'court protocol' to avoid medieval connotations.
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-09-23 20:59:33 GMT)
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Maybe 'the ostentation of courtly protocol'?
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-09-23 21:00:13 GMT)
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Or rather 'court protocol' to avoid medieval connotations.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Ken McKerrow
: Oppressive courtly ostentation...?
5 hrs
|
|
I think that is a good combination of our answers.
|
14 hrs
the burden of court protocol
As mentioned above Elizabeth and Diana had a lot in common. They both saw court conventions as burdens to bear.
14 hrs
courtly decorum
another - more loosely translated - option
Reference comments
42 mins
Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Arts/Academic translator - Art historian
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
139
Reference:
From what I understand of it, Franz Joseph's mother was a bit of a drama queen and required Sissi (Elisabeth) to stand on ceremony and adhere to all sorts of ceremonial and courtly behaviour that she did not like, so the Würdepathos is the mother-in-law's here. I would say 'think Diana' for the right sort of concept. I will try to think if I can find a term, but suggest some sort of umschreiben might be necessary. It is certainly about 'courtly or ceremonial pomp', or something in that vein.
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Note added at 48 mins (2008-09-23 20:44:15 GMT)
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"Elisabeth had difficulty adapting to the strict etiquette practiced at the Habsburg court. [...] While Elisabeth's role and influence on Austro-Hungarian politics should not be overestimated (she is only marginally mentioned in scholarly books on Austrian history), she has undoubtedly become a 20th century icon, often compared to Diana, Princess of Wales. She was considered to be a free spirit who abhorred conventional court protocol. She has inspired filmmakers and theatrical producers alike."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_of_Bavaria
Clearly the Diana thing is just about right!!
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Note added at 48 mins (2008-09-23 20:44:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"Elisabeth had difficulty adapting to the strict etiquette practiced at the Habsburg court. [...] While Elisabeth's role and influence on Austro-Hungarian politics should not be overestimated (she is only marginally mentioned in scholarly books on Austrian history), she has undoubtedly become a 20th century icon, often compared to Diana, Princess of Wales. She was considered to be a free spirit who abhorred conventional court protocol. She has inspired filmmakers and theatrical producers alike."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_of_Bavaria
Clearly the Diana thing is just about right!!
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Ingeborg Gowans (X)
: I had exactly the same idea: thinking about Diana; how history repeats itself, eh?
10 mins
|
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