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Tertiärluft auf Sollwert in Funktion des Dampfstroms

Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Vier-Augen-Prinzip

English translation:

dual control

Added to glossary by Steffen Walter
Feb 12, 2004 10:38
20 yrs ago
39 viewers *
German term

vier-Augen-Prinzip

German to English Bus/Financial Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
I know exactly what this means - I'm looking for a snappy and idomatic way to put it into English.....

Anyone feeling creative today?

Thanks!

Alison
Proposed translations (English)
5 +1 dual control
4 +4 two heads are better than one
4 +2 Second pair of eyes
5 +1 between you, me and the wall
5 +1 having it double checked
5 dual control
5 so the right hand knows what the left hand is doing
4 +1 Checks and balances
2 +3 "four eyes principle"
4 belts & braces principle
5 -1 Person to person
4 cross your t's and dot your i's
4 getting a second opinion
4 -1 separation of functions
4 -2 Entre dos amigos, un notario y dos testigos.
Change log

May 5, 2009 16:05: Steffen Walter changed "Field" from "Other" to "Bus/Financial"

Discussion

Roddy Stegemann Feb 12, 2004:
Perhaps you could explain the vier-Augen-Prinzip. Judging from the responses there is a great deal of confusion.

Proposed translations

+1
5 mins
Selected

dual control

I know this is the meaning !
Peer comment(s):
agree Beate Lutzebaeck : Yep, principle of dual control. I believe there are some glossary entries for this term.
2 mins
disagree David Moore (X) : Impossible! It means a discussion, yes - but joint control is something different....
2 hrs
neutral Gisela Greenlee : Depends on where it is used and how - dual control in banking means two people are present at all times while the task is performed. A google search indicated that in Germany the "Vier-Augen-Prinzip" is used for dual control and 2nd look, 2nd approval
6 hrs
agree NGK : http://www.proz.com/?sp=h&id=63891
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "This is exactly what I was looking for. I knew I'd heard it somewhere before and that it wasn't a word-for-word translation. Thanks also to everyone else for all of your creative answers."
6 mins

dual control

I know this is the meaning !
Something went wrong...
+4
10 mins

two heads are better than one

assuming that the reference is to Vier Augen sehen mehr als zwei.
Peer comment(s):
agree Textklick : Yep. That's why I trinslations should allways be revoowed ;-)
44 mins
agree Lori Dendy-Molz : Maybe "four eyes are better than two" - plays on the idiom but emphasizes double-checking over thinking together.
59 mins
agree jerrie
2 hrs
agree roneill
5 hrs
neutral Roddy Stegemann : Does this expression not refer to the notion that one problem seen from more than one perspective is more easily understood and resloved. Please see my comment to Italengger below my own entry before responding.
11 hrs
Something went wrong...
14 mins

so the right hand knows what the left hand is doing

or Two heads are better than one.
OK, you said you wanted snappy...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Roddy Stegemann : Does this expression not have to do with problems of institutional coordination, rather than overcoming problems associated with potential distrust?
12 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
50 mins

Checks and balances

Have come across "four-eye" principle as well.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2004-02-12 16:57:49 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or rather corporate checks and balances
Peer comment(s):
agree Edhild : sounds professional
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
2 hrs

separation of functions

perhaps. Good luck, Alison Riddell-Kachur!
Peer comment(s):
disagree Aniello Scognamiglio (X) : it is double-check, dual control etc. as mentioned by our colleages!
21 mins
But functions ase separated, italengger, don't you find?
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

belts & braces principle

not to leave anything to chance
Something went wrong...
+3
13 mins

"four eyes principle"

Ich bin schon oft mit dieser wörtlichen Variante konfrontiert worden.
In Google viele Beispiele, aber:
Handelt es sich vielleicht um einen sog. "falschen Freund"?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 28 mins (2004-02-12 13:07:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Dank Beate hat mich der Eifer gepackt und ich habe nochmal Zeit investiert. Ja, \"four eyes principle\" ist wohl nicht ganz \"cosher\".

Gefunden habe ich eine gute Alternative, wie ich meine:

***** the principle that two pairs of eyes are better than one *****

Quelle: http://forum.leo.org/archiv/2002_08/02/20020802082846e_en.ht...

Bin auf Feedback gespannt!!!
Peer comment(s):
agree Howard Corlett (X)
21 mins
see new suggestion...
neutral Beate Lutzebaeck : Hm, ich glaube hier eher an den falschen Freund. "four eyes" ist im Engl. eine wenig nette Bezeichnung für Brillenträger ... ;-)
32 mins
see new suggestion...
agree Textklick : Beate hat Recht ADDED: Sorry. Ich habe gemeint ich stimme der Beate zu.
38 mins
warum stimmst Du dann zu? // add: vielleicht stimmst Du meinem neuen Vorschlag zu, dann kannst Du agree lassen;-)
agree Susanne Rindlisbacher : two pairs..., obwohl das nicht sehr "snappy" ist
4 hrs
neutral Roddy Stegemann : Clients care little about the time you invest in translation, but they do care about the finished products. Your literal translation not only comes across alienating to the English ear, but it appears to be off the mark in terms of meaning as well.
12 hrs
Hm, looks like you did not digest my 'neutral' comment (changed to disagree). Your comment sounds sort of aggressive und nicht gerade professionell!
neutral Armorel Young : it simply doesn't mean anything to someone who doesn't know the original German
12 hrs
which suggestion, the first or second one? As for the first one, I already expressed my doubts.
Something went wrong...
-1
2 hrs

Person to person

Strictly personal, yes, there are lots of other possibilities as well, but.... dual control???
This is a meeting not to be overlooked/heard/seen by any third party - or fly-on-the-wall.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Terry Gilman : I would understand that to be "unter vier Augen," and believe ARK is asking about the German business practice of having letters, requisitions, credit notes and the like signed by two employees rather than one as a safeguard against fraud.
21 mins
Thanks for a "neutral", Terry; but she didn't say so....
disagree Beate Lutzebaeck : Vier-Augen-Prinzip is a standard term in banking and related industries, meaning that entries/transactions are checked by a second person. Not so much a safeguard against fraud but against errors and mistakes.
6 hrs
But how are we supposed to know this is banking? We have not been told - or is it not permitted to use the term in any other context???
neutral Roddy Stegemann : I agree with Beate. Human error lies at the root of the problem. By eliminating it, the problem of distrust is removed, and everyone is happier because of it.
10 hrs
Thanks again, Hamo; but again, she didn't say so, did she....
Something went wrong...
+2
3 hrs

Second pair of eyes

This what we always used to say - have a second pair of eyes look at it. Get's quite a few google hits. Then there is a catchy carpentry phrase - measure twice, cut once, don't know if that could work in your context.
Peer comment(s):
agree davidgreen : i like it, wish i had another pair
1 hr
Thank you!
agree Aniello Scognamiglio (X) : nice one! (second pair of eyes).
2 hrs
Thank you!
neutral Roddy Stegemann : Measure twice, cut once is a good expression, but it refers to an individual checking his own work, so as to avoid a costly mistake. There is no underlying element of distrust.
8 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
4 hrs

between you, me and the wall

and "double check" (or "dual control") both are correct translations - depending on the context. If the 4-Augen Prinzip refers to the checking of documents, etc. it's the double check version. If they mean to say, however, that sthg. is discussed that should be kept secret (etwas unter vier Augen besprechen) it's between you, me and the wall.
Peer comment(s):
agree David Moore (X) : You, me and the gatepost is my version
17 hrs
Something went wrong...
9 hrs

cross your t's and dot your i's

another way of putting it
Peer comment(s):
neutral Roddy Stegemann : Does this expression not refer to the notion that one should be exact, so as to avoid potential mistakes in interpretation?
2 hrs
yes, just like "second pair of eyes" or " double checking smthing"
Something went wrong...
-2
1 hr

Entre dos amigos, un notario y dos testigos.

With a footnote explaining that it is a Spanish proverb.

Of course, it would be of little value unless there were some reference to hispanic culture in the document.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs 4 mins (2004-02-12 23:42:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Note to Italengger: You are always welcome to agree or disagree, but justifications like \"Honestly, I disagree with your suggestion\" only serve to express your conviction about a certain point; they add no new information. My grandmother died believing that no human being has ever walked on the surface of the moon. This, despite the images of the first moonwalk that she saw on television.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Textklick : Lo ciento, no entiendo espanol. Soy ingles :-( ADDED: Don't worry dearie, I love you really - I just thought your reasoning was a little off course.
14 mins
I used to think you had a good sense of humor, but my opinion is changing rapidly. :-)
disagree jerrie : I'm sorry, I don't understand Spanish, either...why give a Spanish answer when there are many options in English?
55 mins
I do not post my responses for BrownZ seekers, I post them to help the Asker. She now has a Spanish-equivalent alternative that she did not have before. I do not believe a literal translation is necessary, unless Alison requires one for her footnote.
agree davidgreen : I love it, never heard that one before!
3 hrs
This was my reaction when I first learned it, already many years ago. I never forgot it!
disagree Aniello Scognamiglio (X) : I know Italian; to me this sounds negative, that is not what "4-Augen-Prinzip" is supposed to convey. I would definitely NOT use it. // add: you should know that Italians know Spanish! Honestly, I disagree with your suggest.ion.
4 hrs
Are you suggesting that this is an Italian expression? The underlying problem is the same, and the solution is similar: one overcomes problems of potential distrust with third parties. I fail to see your point.
Something went wrong...
5 days

getting a second opinion

Could be another phrase to play around with.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Roddy Stegemann : No, getting a second opinion means the same as two heads are better than one, but from an outside source.
4 days
that's just what I intended it to mean, and what I think the phrase means - vier Augen sehen mehr als zwei
Something went wrong...
+1
1207 days

having it double checked

If any item of text, such as a translation, is read by the athor and checked by another person.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1207 Tage (2007-06-04 08:49:41 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

That should read "read by the author", of course.
Example sentence:

Everything is translated by our bilingual translators and is double checked for quality.

Every completed WorldLingo translation is double checked for quality by a proofreader and editor before we deliver the finished document to you.

Reference:

http://www.hungariantranslation.com/

http://www.worldlingo.com/en/services/document_translation.html

Peer comment(s):
agree Marcel Malorny : sounds comprehensible
2404 days
Something went wrong...
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