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Dec 22, 2014 20:58
9 yrs ago
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English term

refined with time

English Other Architecture
These, first seen in key Romanesque buildings such as Durham Cathedral, were refined with time, leading to the style that followed on from Romanesque: Gothic

Discussion

juvera Jan 2, 2015:
Architectural advances As a qualified architect, I like the above expression you used, but do not accept "engineering techniques". I would use structural advances instead.
The ogival arch was not devised by medieval European architects, it existed before.
B D Finch Jan 2, 2015:
Desire alone is inadequate ... ... to explain the development from Romanesque to Gothic. Durham Cathedral actually used some techniques that were very advanced for the time and that demonstrated knowledge of Gothic architectural advances. In fact, it took more than desire, time and practice to devise the ogival arch, ribbed vaults and flying buttresses. The architects of the time did not have access to modern mathematical calculations of stresses and load-bearing strength of materials, so there was some trial and error involved and some cathedrals did collapse. However, the major advances in engineering techniques (e.g. from round to ogival arches) were derived from new theoretical understanding of how stresses could be managed and were not simply a "natural evolution" due to some vague desire for a more sophisticated style.
juvera Jan 2, 2015:
The original word: refined is the best word for it. It means a natural evolution inspired by the desire to build taller, better lit, more decorated buildings to reach a more refined more sophisticated STYLE.
B D Finch Dec 23, 2014:
An aside This ST does seem not merely Eurocentric, but Christian Eurocentric and ignores the architecture of e.g. Moorish Spain, which managed to construct large but light and airy buildings in stone.
Tony M Dec 22, 2014:
@ Asker: thanks! That's great, that does help! So it is the relatively abstract 'techniques' that were 'refined over time'.
ahmadwarshal (asker) Dec 22, 2014:
Building large churches in stone meant that the walls had to be extremely thick, and windows quite small (to prevent the building collapsing). With time and practise, less bulky construction techniques became possible. These, first seen in key Romanesque buildings such as Durham Cathedral, were refined with time, leading to the style that followed on from Romanesque: Gothic (13th-15th centuries).
Tony M Dec 22, 2014:
@ Asker Context — what is 'these' referring back to? It would help to know if it is something specific, or a more abstract notion?

Responses

+1
5 mins

polished/improved on over time

A suggestion
Peer comment(s):

agree acetran
12 hrs
Thank you :)
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+1
1 hr

became more sophisticated and capable of ....

Based on discussion box entry, implying that the construction techniques began to improve over time.

"...became more sophisticated and capable of dealing with the thick walls and small windows..."

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Note added at 1 hr (2014-12-22 22:45:11 GMT)
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i.e. to deal with the problems caused by the construction techniques.
Peer comment(s):

neutral B D Finch : Far from becoming "capable of dealing with the thick walls and small windows", it became possible not to resort to thick walls and small windows.
10 hrs
Exactly, because the techniques became more sophisticated and capable of dealing with the issue which had caused the tendency for thick walls and small windows.
agree acetran
10 hrs
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+1
12 hrs

acquired greater technological sophistication over time

The heavy stone buildings of Norman/romanesque were "over-engineered" because they didn't actually use the engineering techniques, that developed later. Those later techniques allowed stresses/loads to be managed more efficiently and reduced the quantity of stone used, allowing the envelope to be opened up with windows and for wider spans of clear interior space. (The latter was an advance over Moorish architectural techniques too.)
Peer comment(s):

agree Yvonne Gallagher : yes, refine=developed & fine-tuned along with such techniques as the flying buttresses of the Gothic period
1 hr
Thanks Gallagy.
neutral juvera : I would not refer to "engineering techniques" when talking about romanesque/gothic architecture.Natural evolution was caused by the desire to build higher, with larger windows, same tools, technology.Number of cathedrals suffered collapses in the process.
10 days
It is a mistake to think this was "natural evolution" and your explanation seems teleological. On the contrary, transferring load-bearing from walls to a stone framework was a major development of engineering techniques, not just trial and error!
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