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fascia spinocostotransversalis
Nov 13, 2020 10:21
3 yrs ago
46 viewers *
German term

unmündig Minderjährigen

German to English Law/Patents Law (general) identification and authentication
It relates to a paper about identification and verification of the identity of minors for banking transactions (as part of AML issues).

Für die Feststellung und Überprüfung der Identität des Vertretenen ist es bei *unmündig Minderjährigen* (Personen bis 14 Jahren) und bei Personen, für die ein Sachwalter bestellt wurde, ausreichend, wenn die vertretungsbefugte natürliche Person einen amtlichen Lichtbildausweis des Vertretenen vorlegt, anhand dessen der Verpflichtete die Identität des Vertretenen feststellen kann. Handelt es sich beim Kunden um einen mündig Minderjährigen (Personen zwischen 14 und 18 Jahren), hat die Überprüfung der Identität jedenfalls anhand eines amtlichen Lichtbildausweises iSd § 6 Abs. 2 Z 1 FM-GwG und bei persönlicher Anwesenheit des Kunden zu erfolgen.

I understand the concept that Minderjährigen (minors) seem to be split into *unmündig Minderjährigen* (until the age of 14) and *mündig Minderjährigen* (between 14-18) but cannot find a compact rendering of unmündig/mündig. I had wondered about whether to use "children" and "adolescents" but am not sure that the definition of "Kind" in various Austrian laws covers 0-13.

This is an Austrian legal text . As per the reference above - FM-GwG is Austria's Financial Markets Anti-Money Laundering Act - and used for transposing AMLD4 and AMLD5.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +4 children under the age of 14 years
3 +3 dependent minors
3 minors with limited capacity to contract
2 USA: unemancipated minors; UK & Oz etc: non-sui juris minors
2 underage minors

Discussion

Michael Bailey (asker) Nov 17, 2020:
Thanks all - and stay safe! Thanks for all the discussion and suggestions - I consulted the author to arrive as minors under the age of 14 years.
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 16, 2020:
Okay, I give up If ***persons under the age of 14*** is ALREADY in the source text, why repeat it? The term here is unmündige Minderjährigen!
Bettina Rittsteuer Nov 16, 2020:
Strafmündigkeit Mündig or unmündig primarily refers to Strafmündigkeit - minors can be punished for offences from the age of 14
§ 74. StGB (1) Im Sinn dieses Bundesgesetzes ist
1. unmündig: wer das vierzehnte Lebensjahr noch nicht vollendet hat;
https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/GeltendeFassung.wxe?Abfrage=Bundes...
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 16, 2020:
Hi Michael Yes, I got that. My confusion lies with the explanation already in the source text. Why would you want to repeat it? As far as I see, we're looking at the term unmündige Minderjährigen. You would retain/translate the explanation in parantheses anyway, wouldn't you?
Michael Bailey (asker) Nov 16, 2020:
@Ramey Rieger - age of consent in Austria is 14 From further checking the consent side of things - There are various ages of consent under § 206 Stgb - in Austria, with 14 being one of the ages in restricted circumstances.
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 16, 2020:
Good morning Michael Of course, it says exactly that in the source text you're translating. I though you wanted a translation for unmündige Minderjährigen (14 years and younger/under 14 years of age)?
Michael Bailey (asker) Nov 16, 2020:
§ 74 (1) 1 Stgb Definition Returning to this one with fresher eyes on a Monday morning, I checked Schloenhardt/Höpfel (eds) bilingual edition of the Austrian Criminal Code (Strafgesetzbuch) - they use "unmündig [under-age]" for the definition with 'a person under the age of 14' being used in the text for clarity.
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 13, 2020:
I only know consenting to be referring to adults (over 16 or 18 or 21, depending on the state)
Michael Bailey (asker) Nov 13, 2020:
§ 21 ABGB (Common Civil Code) § 21 ABGB - https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/eli/jgs/1811/946/P21/NOR40192976 makes the distinction between mündig/unmündig about minors - I have wondered about whether there is an aspect of "consenting"

Proposed translations

+4
1 hr
Selected

children under the age of 14 years

Reading and extrapolating from your text
It seems people in Austria would understand the term without needing to be told about the age range, but obviously not so in En-speaking jurisdictions. There is no directly equivalent term so I think you must specify the "under 14" aspect.
Peer comment(s):
agree writeaway
13 hrs
agree Ted Wozniak : In this particular case, I think this non-legal plain English phrase works best (but I might suggest "minors" instead of children.
1 day 2 hrs
agree Michele Fauble
1 day 6 hrs
agree Bettina Rittsteuer : Yes, I think you have to be explicit. One other suggestion: minors under the age of 14
3 days 5 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I went for minors over children (as per the suggestions by Ted Wozniak and Bettina Rittsteuer), as the materials I looked through do not use "Kind", but have awarded you the points for the need to specify the "under 14" aspect."
+3
1 hr

dependent minors

Hey Michael! Your text clarifies the difference anyway (persons under 14 years of age). I've heard this term used for minors requiring parental/guardian permission for whatever.
Note from asker:
Thanks for all your comments and remarks - helped push the discussion with the customer in the right direction.
Peer comment(s):
agree Z-Translations Translator : or just minors; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_(law)
8 mins
Thanks for the confirmation. Thought about 'just' minors, but Austrian law differentiates and what constitutes is minor varies greatly depending on the country.
neutral AllegroTrans : Problem here is that diffrenet countries have totally different definitions of the term
14 mins
Exactly. Let's see where this takes us. Have a good weekend!
agree writeaway : but it would be best to specify the ages too.
13 hrs
Sure, but that#s already in the source text.
agree Harald Moelzer (medical-translator) : straight to the point :)
2 days 18 hrs
hI HARALD! I really hope you're doing well these crazy daze!
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

USA: unemancipated minors; UK & Oz etc: non-sui juris minors

Low CL / confidence level as there is no hint of the target readership. Unempancipated is not intended to mean the children have been held in abject slavery or been forced into slave labo/u/r.

I'd avoid terms like at the age of qualified etc. consent, implying a different kind of status.

A minor 'under legal vs. physical disability' is something of a tautology, as minor is by definition 'incompetent' in law.

Obiter, there is a memorable equity & trusts case in English law - I have forgotten, Saunders vs. Vautier ? - about minors who, if sui juris, can bring to an end a trust set up in their favo/u/r and be distributed the loot.
Example sentence:

Non Sui Juris [Latin, Not his own master.] A term applied to an individual who lacks the legal capacity to act on his or her own behalf, such as an infant or an insane person.

This page in a nutshell: In light of BLP, editing about minors and persons legally judged incompetent should be especially protective of their rights.

Reference:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german-to-english/law-general/1313191-mündig-minderjährige.html

http://de.pons.com/übersetzung/latein-deutsch/sui+iuris

Note from asker:
Thanks for the Latin and the remarks about avoiding "consent" or "consenting".
Peer comment(s):
neutral Ted Wozniak : Unemancipated was my first thought as well, but then I decided it was too general. Emancipation of a minor grants them the ability to consent and to contract, with only the former being the case here.
23 hrs
Something went wrong...
12 hrs

minors with limited capacity to contract

Compare with this:
"Unmündige Minderjährige sind beschränkt geschäftsfähig. Auch sie können jedenfalls altersübliche, geringfügige Geschäfte des täglichen Lebens schließen, wobei mit steigendem Alter der Umfang der Geschäfte zunimmt."
https://www.wko.at/service/wirtschaftsrecht-gewerberecht/Ges...
Something went wrong...
2 days 7 hrs

underage minors

Sounds doppelt gemoppelt to me, but does seem to be in use.

As the writer of this essay, I have firsthand experience with customers purchasing games with the intent of letting underage minors play them.
http://teapowered.co.uk/documents/Cultural-Study-of-Video-Ga...

Note from asker:
Agree on the slightly tautological / doppelt gemoppelt side of it - although necessary to distinguish between 0-13 year old minors and those of 14-17.
Something went wrong...
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