This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Oct 3, 2012 13:14
11 yrs ago
7 viewers *
English term
butch
English to Spanish
Other
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
conversation
Is there a current Spanish name to call the type of lesbian known as butch in English?
I have seen "marimacho", which sounds really awful to me. Any more polite names?
I have seen "marimacho", which sounds really awful to me. Any more polite names?
Proposed translations
(Spanish)
Proposed translations
6 mins
lesbiana
Creo que sería la forma más educada.
10 mins
lesbiana
marimacho es un término vulgar y de poco respeto. good luck!
+1
17 mins
bollera o camionera
:-)
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Giovanni Rengifo
: If asker doesn't like "bollera" (first time I hear it), then "camionera" probably works well for a broad audience.
24 mins
|
+4
13 mins
marimacho
Hola valer83,
I would say that this is exactly the term that we use in peninsular Spanish, despite the fact that it sounds, as you mention, awful (although so does the English). It all depends on the context in which you want to use it. If it is a more informal conversation, it will do. If you are trying to translate a text in a higher register I would then suggest that you try to describe the type of woman. For example: una mujer muy varonil, una chicazo, etc.
The article I am attaching may help you to find a more specific name for your context.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2012-10-03 13:34:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I have also found in this article a mention to: "bolleras camioneras"
Other combination: "lesbianas varoniles"
I would say that this is exactly the term that we use in peninsular Spanish, despite the fact that it sounds, as you mention, awful (although so does the English). It all depends on the context in which you want to use it. If it is a more informal conversation, it will do. If you are trying to translate a text in a higher register I would then suggest that you try to describe the type of woman. For example: una mujer muy varonil, una chicazo, etc.
The article I am attaching may help you to find a more specific name for your context.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2012-10-03 13:34:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I have also found in this article a mention to: "bolleras camioneras"
Other combination: "lesbianas varoniles"
Note from asker:
Hi, Guadalupe. Your idea is good. Voy a intentar describirla, aunque no quiero caer en lugares comunes. Además, tengo que limitar mucho el espacio. Gracias! |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
patinba
: or "machona" in Argentina
2 mins
|
agree |
macimovic
3 mins
|
agree |
James A. Walsh
5 mins
|
agree |
Manuel Martín-Iguacel
2 hrs
|
+2
24 mins
lesbiana hombruna
"Marimacho" (o machona o machorra o machota, en distintos países) es una mujer que se comporta como hombre. No denota necesariamente una lesbiana, aunque a menudo se conlleva esa insinuación. Es una palabra bastante ofensiva.
Otra expresión, que sí que implica siempre lesbiana y es también coloquial y ofensiva, es "camionera". Yo diría que actualmente se utiliza más que "marimacho" en español, en lenguaje coloquial, para referirse a una lesbiana "varonil".
"Lesbiana", a secas, no significa necesariamente "butch",
Creo que una expresión menos vulgar para referirse a una lesbiana "butch" sería "lesbiana hombruna":
"Quiero decir que no se parece en nada al tipo de mujer que me viene a la cabeza cuando pienso en una lesbiana. No es hombruna, ni se mueve rudamente, ni va vestida al estilo andrógino"
http://www.lesbiana.es/2010/02/22/lesbianarium-20-gay-friend...
"En la década de los cincuenta surge como figura sobresaliente la "lesbiana hombruna" y ello tanto para el público en general como entre las propias mujeres lesbianas"
Ángela G. Alfarache Lorenzo, Identidades lésbicas y cultura feminista: Una investigación antropológica, p. 154
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 27 mins (2012-10-03 13:42:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Of course if you want a vulgar, pejorative term, there's no lack of choice: the most common one nowadays, I'd say, is "camionera" (in Spain), a term I have heard applied to the lady mayoress of a certain Spanish city. It's very insulting though. "Bollera" and "tortillera" are also vulgar terms for a lesbian in Spain, again insulting, though they don't so strongly imply butch (I realise that for some people, "lesbian" and "butch" are more or less synonyms, but this is of course a gross misconception).
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2012-10-03 13:42:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Referencia para el libro de Ángela Alfarache Lorenzo:
http://books.google.es/books?id=9S-k2nNoYyYC&pg=PA154&lpg=PA...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 32 mins (2012-10-03 13:46:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Otra expresión más eufemística es "amazona":
"Con su constitución robusta y su expresión y postura algo amenazantes, la duquesa representa a la “amazona” o lesbiana hombruna."
Gerry Souter, Tamara de Lempicka, pág. 49.
Se refiere a la duquesa de La Salle, retratada por Tamara de Lempicka. Ver reproducción en pág. 48:
http://books.google.es/books?id=YLyJALIeOt8C&pg=PA49&lpg=PA4...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 40 mins (2012-10-03 13:54:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I agree with you that "butch", though colloquial, is not particularly offensive, and there isn't really a more polite alternative in English. It is a word used by lesbians themselves, which I don't think "marimacho" or "camionera" are in Spanish. See here, for example:
"Have you ever felt that you were a Butch Lesbian? Butches can be very attractive, handy and even sweet. The challenge is balancing the style so it looks good."
http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Butch-Lesbian
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2012-10-03 14:17:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
No, "amazona" isn't really an appropriate option here, I agree! I'd go with "hombruna"; it says what you mean without being offensive.
Otra expresión, que sí que implica siempre lesbiana y es también coloquial y ofensiva, es "camionera". Yo diría que actualmente se utiliza más que "marimacho" en español, en lenguaje coloquial, para referirse a una lesbiana "varonil".
"Lesbiana", a secas, no significa necesariamente "butch",
Creo que una expresión menos vulgar para referirse a una lesbiana "butch" sería "lesbiana hombruna":
"Quiero decir que no se parece en nada al tipo de mujer que me viene a la cabeza cuando pienso en una lesbiana. No es hombruna, ni se mueve rudamente, ni va vestida al estilo andrógino"
http://www.lesbiana.es/2010/02/22/lesbianarium-20-gay-friend...
"En la década de los cincuenta surge como figura sobresaliente la "lesbiana hombruna" y ello tanto para el público en general como entre las propias mujeres lesbianas"
Ángela G. Alfarache Lorenzo, Identidades lésbicas y cultura feminista: Una investigación antropológica, p. 154
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 27 mins (2012-10-03 13:42:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Of course if you want a vulgar, pejorative term, there's no lack of choice: the most common one nowadays, I'd say, is "camionera" (in Spain), a term I have heard applied to the lady mayoress of a certain Spanish city. It's very insulting though. "Bollera" and "tortillera" are also vulgar terms for a lesbian in Spain, again insulting, though they don't so strongly imply butch (I realise that for some people, "lesbian" and "butch" are more or less synonyms, but this is of course a gross misconception).
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2012-10-03 13:42:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Referencia para el libro de Ángela Alfarache Lorenzo:
http://books.google.es/books?id=9S-k2nNoYyYC&pg=PA154&lpg=PA...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 32 mins (2012-10-03 13:46:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Otra expresión más eufemística es "amazona":
"Con su constitución robusta y su expresión y postura algo amenazantes, la duquesa representa a la “amazona” o lesbiana hombruna."
Gerry Souter, Tamara de Lempicka, pág. 49.
Se refiere a la duquesa de La Salle, retratada por Tamara de Lempicka. Ver reproducción en pág. 48:
http://books.google.es/books?id=YLyJALIeOt8C&pg=PA49&lpg=PA4...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 40 mins (2012-10-03 13:54:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I agree with you that "butch", though colloquial, is not particularly offensive, and there isn't really a more polite alternative in English. It is a word used by lesbians themselves, which I don't think "marimacho" or "camionera" are in Spanish. See here, for example:
"Have you ever felt that you were a Butch Lesbian? Butches can be very attractive, handy and even sweet. The challenge is balancing the style so it looks good."
http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Butch-Lesbian
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2012-10-03 14:17:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
No, "amazona" isn't really an appropriate option here, I agree! I'd go with "hombruna"; it says what you mean without being offensive.
Note from asker:
Hi Charles! Thanks so much! You've given me a lot of options. On "amazona", however, if you say that, I would think of Angelina Jolie, and that could never be a butch. ;-))) |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Ana Gutierrez
17 hrs
|
Gracias, Ana :)
|
|
agree |
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
1 day 2 hrs
|
Gracias y saludos, Bea :)
|
+1
1 hr
tortillera
Another option; however, I don't think politeness is the purpose judging from the original term.
2 hrs
varona
Quizás la expresión no sea tan peyorativa.
De la Real Academia,
varona.
1. f. p. us. Persona del sexo femenino, mujer.
2. f. p. us. Mujer varonil.
La ultima actualizacion del significado de varona fue el 02/10/2012 14:09:3
De la Real Academia,
varona.
1. f. p. us. Persona del sexo femenino, mujer.
2. f. p. us. Mujer varonil.
La ultima actualizacion del significado de varona fue el 02/10/2012 14:09:3
+1
2 hrs
machona
Hi,
I'm from Peru and this is the term I have heard used for butch.
I hope it helps.
Gloria
I'm from Peru and this is the term I have heard used for butch.
I hope it helps.
Gloria
Peer comment(s):
agree |
patinba
: No es grosero, y supongo que si sirve para Argentina, del otro lado del río también.
5 hrs
|
Discussion
For example, "bollera" sounds too much from Spain. Also, "lesbiana" is very generic, while "butch" refers to a special type of lesbian, but not in a pejorative way, I think. Very difficult to choose, because I need a way to call a butch and make it different from the rest of the lesbians.