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reinen Wein einschenken
Feb 3, 2011 22:54
13 yrs ago
German term

"für" in this context

German to English Social Sciences General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
From a scholarly article on spherical shapes in architecture. Perhaps I'm tired, but I'm having a hard time making sense of the "für" in the following sentence. The way I understand it, there is a structural problem of representing the center of democratic rule, which the sphere reveals in its empty center. But the "für" makes me wonder whether it's Die Kugel gab das x für x als x preis. (das Problem für das Zentrum als die leere Mitte) - which doesn't make sense to me. Thanks for your help.

Die Kugel fand zwar Aufnahme in die politische Ikonographie der Revolution als eine Figur, welche die Einheitsphantasmen der Volksherrschaft raumbildlich um- und beschrieb; sie gab jedoch gleichzeitig das strukturelle Repräsentationsproblem *für* ein Zentrum dieser Herrschaft als ihre buchstäblich leere Mitte preis.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 problem of representing this centre
3 +1 the structural representation problem for a center of this rule
Change log

Feb 4, 2011 06:23: Astrid Elke Witte changed "Visibility" from "Visible" to "Squashed"

Feb 5, 2011 14:18: Enrique Cavalitto changed "Term asked" from "help with sentence" to "\"für\" in this context"

Feb 5, 2011 14:18: Enrique Cavalitto changed "Visibility" from "Squashed" to "Visible"

Discussion

Horst Huber (X) Feb 4, 2011:
preisgeben You rightly read this as meaning "reveal" or "disclose", but then it may convey the notion of "forfeit" or "forgo"?
Johanna Timm, PhD Feb 4, 2011:
*für* „ein Repräsentationsproblem *für* etwas “ = ein Problem, etwas (hier: das Zentrum der Herrschaft) zu repräsentieren
Umformuliert:
Sie (die Kugel) enthüllte jedoch gleichzeitig das strukturelle Problem, ein Zentrum dieser Herrschaft zu repräsentieren, durch ihre buchstäblich leere Mitte.
Helen Shiner Feb 4, 2011:
Ihre I believe this refers to 'die Kugel' not 'die Herrschaft'.
Helen Shiner Feb 4, 2011:
@ Bernhard I think it is the other way around. The sphere is both enclosing and hollow and works well as in the first instance representationally, but does not equate well to the notion of Volksherrschaft which is anything but hollow at the core.
mill2 (asker) Feb 4, 2011:
@Bernhard Yes exactly. With Andrew's help I've now come up with this: "...it also made manifest the structural problem of representing the center of this popular rule, revealing it to be a literally hollow core."
Bernhard Sulzer Feb 4, 2011:
thoughts the way I see it is that the sphere works well as a representational form of/for representing unity phantasies/phantasms but it doesn't work so well when it comes to describing/representing the power centre/core of the power/authority/governance which is revealed as a "literally" hollow, empty core, especially if one thinks of the citizens on the sphere's surface being all the same distance from the law/power center/centre - which is empty/not occupied by anything/anybody - and to which all citizens should figuratively or otherwise submit.
http://www.transcript-verlag.de/ts945/ts945_1.pdf

Proposed translations

+2
46 mins
German term (edited): Repräsentationsproblem für ein Zentrum
Selected

problem of representing this centre

At the same time, however, this simply threw up another problem of (structural) representation, because ‘rule by the people’ was now seen to be literally a hollow core.

Popular revolutions don't always turn out as well-wishers would hope. Quite topical, really.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-02-04 00:14:23 GMT)
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Hi mill
I think the tough part of your sentence is actually 'preisgeben'. I have suggested 'throw up' as a rather free translation.If that is acceptable, there would be no further need to use the verb 'reveal', though there are certainly alternative translations in which it would feature.
AJS

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Note added at 1 hr (2011-02-04 00:22:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Without wishing to make any statement that might be interpreted as endorsing one side or another in an ongoing news story, popular revolutions often lead to a power vacuum, i.e. if everyone rules, no-one rules.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-02-04 00:27:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In the "politische Ikonographie der Revolution", this is the last message that you would want to convey.
Note from asker:
Thanks Andrew. What about "...threw up another problem of structural representation, revealing popular rule to literally be a hollow core."
Peer comment(s):
agree Helen Shiner : The problem is representing the idea structurally since its hollow core has unwished for meanings. At least that is how I see it.
29 mins
Yes. We agree on this interpretation: "unwished for meanings"
agree Bernhard Sulzer
53 mins
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks very much for all the careful readings and excellent suggestions, wish I could divy up the points between you and Helen!"
+1
11 mins
German term (edited): help with sentence

the structural representation problem for a center of this rule

... at the same time, it revealed the structural representation problem for a center of this rule as its virtually empty core.

Or something like that. The für makes sense to me. The structural representation problem for a center of this rule...

Does this make sense?
Note from asker:
Thank you - but why "for"? Isn't it a problem *of* a center?
Peer comment(s):
agree Bernhard Sulzer : you can check my discussion post; I think you also see the empty core as a representational problem - how can one describe the centre of power as a virtually empty core of a sphere?!
1 hr
neutral Helen Shiner : This doesn't work very well in EN, I'm afraid.
1 hr
Something went wrong...
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