| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | The ambiguous sense of the word "translated" Thread poster: jyuan_us
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Lingua 5B 
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 21:34
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Perhaps it could have been phrased differently, eg. translated version of the website....
Here is how the dictionary uses "translated" as an adjective indicating it's a translation (=target text):
trans·la·tion (trăns-lā′shən, trănz-)
n.
2. A translated version of a text
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/translation
... See more Perhaps it could have been phrased differently, eg. translated version of the website....
Here is how the dictionary uses "translated" as an adjective indicating it's a translation (=target text):
trans·la·tion (trăns-lā′shən, trănz-)
n.
2. A translated version of a text
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/translation
*
They said a "translated version of a text" rather than a "translated text".
Also, contextually, "translated" will rarely be used as an adjective to refer to the source text/book. It's almost always used as a verb in that context, when referring to the source text, eg.
His book that had great success has been translated into 10 languages.
rather than
His translated book had great success. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | It is correct | Apr 3, 2016 |
jyuan_us wrote:
I'm interested in knowing if his use of the word "translated" is correct or not.
It is correct and it can be ambiguous but is not at all in this context.
I did recently have a very confusing email exchange with a client in which this was an issue. When it is ambiguous the solution is to refer to the source text and target text. But it really wasn't in this context.
For further discussion of what "translation" and "translated" means, see D.Bellos, Is That A Fish In Your Ear? or any other book on translation or linguistics.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:34
Member (2008)
Italian to English
jyuan_us wrote:
I just need a definition of the word "translated". I hope this would make you less confused.
I'm surprised that someone who is offering their services as a translator into English has to ask such a simple question.
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 15:34
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I think your comment is not very relevant to the issue | Apr 3, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote: jyuan_us wrote:
I just need a definition of the word "translated". I hope this would make you less confused.
I'm surprised that someone who is offering their services as a translator into English has to ask such a simple question.
Also, no question is too simple. From the responses of several colleagues above, I'm confident I was making a point in raising this as a question. The issue is there, and it is an issue not as simple as you thought.
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Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 01:04
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
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SITE LOCALIZER | I think there is more to the question than meets the eye | Apr 3, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote: jyuan_us wrote:
I just need a definition of the word "translated". I hope this would make you less confused.
I'm surprised that someone who is offering their services as a translator into English has to ask such a simple question.
The best explanation has been provided by Samuel in his imaginary conversation involving the client, the geek and the translator.
If you consider similar phrases of English, you will better understand what jyuan is really asking:-
cooked food = the food that has been cooked
defeated team = the team that has been defeated
In a similar vein,
translated text = the text that has been translated, ie., the source text, as that is what has been translated.
So the confusion whether the reference is to the source text or the target text is valid in my opinion.
We translators who are into this business day in and day out, take the meaning to be the target text almost by reflex. But a non-translator, especially one who is not native to English, will go more by the literal meaning of the phrase and by association to similar phrases in English, which all point to source text.
[Edited at 2016-04-03 13:55 GMT]
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 21:34
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| I can see the title now has been edited... | Apr 3, 2016 |
My suggestion for the title:
The ambiguous sense of the word "translated".
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 15:34
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | The issue does not only exist with "translated", but also a whole bunch of other verbs | Apr 3, 2016 |
For any of the verbs that can be followed by the "from...to..." structure, the use of its past participle as an adjective to modify a noun would lead to a certain degree of ambiguity, because the noun could be referring to the object of "from", or that of "to".
For example, transfer/transferred, adjust/adjusted, etc.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 21:34
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Borrow/lend made it easier... | Apr 3, 2016 |
jyuan_us wrote:
For any of the verbs that can be followed by the "from...to..." structure, the use of its past participle as an adjective to modify a noun would lead to a certain degree of ambiguity, because the noun could be referring to the object of "from", or that of "to".
For example, transfer/transferred, adjust/adjusted, etc.
The context will clarify everything for you, but of course if you analyse them in isolation you may end up wondering about these things. However, in the real world, we always live and interpret in a context, sentences do not exist in isolation.
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 15:34
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Lingua 5B wrote:
My suggestion for the title:
The ambiguous sense of the word "translated".
Your advice is well taken and I have replaced the title with the phrase you have provided.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 21:34
French to English
Samuel Murray wrote:
Client: Is this [the source text] the translated version?
Geek translator: Yes.
Normal translator: No.
The expression "translated text" has a strictly geek-logical meaning (= the source text) and a generally accepted meaning (= target text).
thanks for the laugh.
I'd call that person a pedant, personally.
| | | | | It (other question) had confused me too | Apr 3, 2016 |
The other thread title "Signing a translated website" had left me scratching my head as well. Something that has been translated, has not necessarily been translated by us. For example, recently I was given a birth certificate that had been translated from Russian to German, and I now had to translate that translation into English. Because it was a translation, I had to deal with some transliterated names as well as Russian case endings attached to those names The fact of whether a text you ... See more The other thread title "Signing a translated website" had left me scratching my head as well. Something that has been translated, has not necessarily been translated by us. For example, recently I was given a birth certificate that had been translated from Russian to German, and I now had to translate that translation into English. Because it was a translation, I had to deal with some transliterated names as well as Russian case endings attached to those names The fact of whether a text you are dealing with is a translation or in the original language it was written in makes a difference.
So I saw "translated website" as being a website that had been translated. But websites are often in several languages, always including the original, so I discarded that. So maybe it meant the part that would be translated by whoever is asking the question.
Right away I had two meanings for "translated website".
I still had to deal with "signing". When I sign something, there is a blue ink pen in my hand and I scribble in my John Henry. My certified translations all have to be stamped and signed. They get printed out on good quality white paper. But how do you "sign" a WEBsite (translated or not)? It's on the Web - the Net - virtual - no paper of any quality in sight. That was puzzle number two.
That's the point when I gave up on the question.
What I understand now is that the asker wanted to know how to make it clear that he or she was the author of the translation done by that translator, by including some kind of identifier in that translation or somewhere on the site. ▲ Collapse
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"I am translating a website into German and English for my dissertation and I would like to sign both of them as translator. I mean I would like that my name would be there because actually I created the source website and I have translated it.
Where do a translator sign a website? Or where would you sign it?
Thank you in advance."
It wasn't even written by a native speaker. But I don't know what more clarification the OP could provide. It's a pretty... See more "I am translating a website into German and English for my dissertation and I would like to sign both of them as translator. I mean I would like that my name would be there because actually I created the source website and I have translated it.
Where do a translator sign a website? Or where would you sign it?
Thank you in advance."
It wasn't even written by a native speaker. But I don't know what more clarification the OP could provide. It's a pretty unambiguous question.
I suspect that examining a non-native student's English is not the best way to learn more about how English works.
I also suspect that native speakers would very seldom refer to the source text as the "translated text", as has already been pointed out, and that if they did, they would most likely naturally negate the ambiguity by providing more context.
I also, also suspect we're descending into some sort of fork handles/four candles situation here. It might just be time for a coffee break.
[Edited at 2016-04-03 17:01 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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I was surmising how the person who started this thread might have felt the need to ask the question that started this thread. There seemed to be some criticism about it, and so I explained how I had also had some confusion. I don't remember the original thread very well. I thought that the explanation quoted above came later on.
| | | | Ricki Farn
Germany
Local time: 21:34
English to German
| All verbs that imply "copying"? | Apr 4, 2016 |
When I paint a horse (on canvas, not paint its fur), I end up with a painted horse - is that the live one or the one in the picture?
When I replicate a server, I end up with a replicated server - is that the source or the target server?
and so on. Strictly linguistic (i.e. scholarly, not practical) question: Does this hold for all verbs that refer to the creation of an exact or modified copy?
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 01:04
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Meaning is dependent on context | Apr 4, 2016 |
Ricki Farn wrote:
When I paint a horse (on canvas, not paint its fur), I end up with a painted horse - is that the live one or the one in the picture?
When I replicate a server, I end up with a replicated server - is that the source or the target server?
and so on. Strictly linguistic (i.e. scholarly, not practical) question: Does this hold for all verbs that refer to the creation of an exact or modified copy?
Interesting observation.
In all languages, meaning is a function of context. The literal meaning of words attain their relevant meaning only when seen in context.
Otherwise, painted horse could very well mean a horse that has been painted (need not be a live horse, could also be a dummy such as a rocking horse, or the wooden horses on merry go rounds).
The skill in writing involves providing the relevant cues (that is context) so that the words in the text convey not their literal meanings but the meaning intended by the author.
Similarly, skill in reading involves being receptive to these cues provided by the author of the text and guessing the right meaning, rather than just going with the lexical meaning of the words in the text.
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