| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Does Latin help one to think more logically? Thread poster: wonita (X)
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Adam Łobatiuk 
Poland
Local time: 03:13
Member (2009)
English to Polish
+ ...
| Dead languages aren't useless, but... | Mar 19, 2011 |
At University, I had two ancient languages - Old Church Slavonic and Latin.
OCS was the first written Slavic language and is used in reconstructing Proto-Slavic (and also in Orthodox churches). I found it pretty useful as it helped me to understand the various, strikingly regular phonetic differences between Slavic and other languages or language groups. For example, how the Germanic "arm", "Tochter", "Pfennig" and the Polish "ramię", "córka", "pieniądz" (respectively) are relate... See more At University, I had two ancient languages - Old Church Slavonic and Latin.
OCS was the first written Slavic language and is used in reconstructing Proto-Slavic (and also in Orthodox churches). I found it pretty useful as it helped me to understand the various, strikingly regular phonetic differences between Slavic and other languages or language groups. For example, how the Germanic "arm", "Tochter", "Pfennig" and the Polish "ramię", "córka", "pieniądz" (respectively) are related, not to mention the Slavic "karva", "krava", "krova" or "korova" (cow). We were never taught to speak it, but rather to study the grammar and phonetics. It has helped me to understand more words from other Slavic languages as well as the spelling of some Polish words.
Unfortunately, I can't say the same about my Latin class. It could have been helpful by exposing us to Romance vocabulary, but focused on grammar instead. In my opinion, that wasn't very useful because Polish grammar is no less complex. It only lasted a year, so we didn't get to study any literature either. I would probably like to take Latin up again as a hobby, but if I were a student and given the choice between French and Latin, I would definitely choose French - after all, French culture is no less relevant. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | In Germany, Latin is required to study medicin or law | Mar 19, 2011 |
I don't remember any other benefit from it, except when I studied mechanical engineering and had to understand the "Bronstein - Taschenbuch der Mathematik", it was very helpful to know how to dissect sentences into subject, predicate and object, to get an idea where to start trying to understand such a convoluted stuff..
| | | | | almost in "latin countries" | Mar 19, 2011 |
hi
I learnt Latin as well as Mathematics etc during several years and I loved both.
I loved translating into Latin, though other students translated only from Latin.
Many years after I don't forget it and it helps a lot:
for éthymology, mythology and orthograph (I'm French)
but also, even if I speak very little Italian or Spanish, I can understand and appreciate a lot these beautiful languages, even in subtitled movies, Opera etc,
... See more hi
I learnt Latin as well as Mathematics etc during several years and I loved both.
I loved translating into Latin, though other students translated only from Latin.
Many years after I don't forget it and it helps a lot:
for éthymology, mythology and orthograph (I'm French)
but also, even if I speak very little Italian or Spanish, I can understand and appreciate a lot these beautiful languages, even in subtitled movies, Opera etc,
though Danish, Polish and Finnish don't talk to me.
This is why I am glad I learnt Latin - and I regret I didn't study ancient Greek -.
[Edited at 2011-03-19 14:45 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dave Bindon
Greece
Local time: 04:13
Greek to English
In memoriam
I think your daughter should go for French, for several reasons. As others have said, it's a living language with all the advantages which go with it. Also (as pointed out by someone else) most of the 'Latin' influence on English came via French. Learning English and French can be seen as complementary, with a lot of similar vocabulary (although it's pronounced 'funny' by the French )
As for Latin being a useful fou... See more I think your daughter should go for French, for several reasons. As others have said, it's a living language with all the advantages which go with it. Also (as pointed out by someone else) most of the 'Latin' influence on English came via French. Learning English and French can be seen as complementary, with a lot of similar vocabulary (although it's pronounced 'funny' by the French )
As for Latin being a useful foundation for anyone wanting to learn any of the Romance languages descended from it... Well, I can't doubt that but...it could also be said that learning any of the living Romance languages is also a great foundation for learning the 'sister' languages. In my case, certainly, knowing French allowed me to speed through a '1-year course' in Spanish in just a few days; and I can read basic Italian without ever having had a lesson in Italian (or Latin).
On a different note...
It's been interesting to read the various comments about Latin being a prerequisite for studying medicine etc. in some countries (now or in the past). The majority of medical terms are based on Greek!
To quote Marie briefly: Marie
for éthymology, mythology and orthograph (I'm French)
...or, with the English spelling: etymology, mythology and orthography (what did I say earlier about English and French being complementary?!) - are all words of Greek origin. Even though the origin is Ancient (Classical) Greek, all the words are used in Modern Greek, and a modern-day Greek with no education in Ancient Greek would understand both the etymology and orthography of those words based on the modern language! For example, in the modern language ορθός (orthos) means 'right/correct' and 'γραφή' (graphy) means writing.
Bin, my suggestion would be: let your daughter learn French at school. If she shows an interest in languages and linguistics, then encourage her to learn modern Greek in the future. It's a living language. It's the source of many words used in other European languages (even many Latin words were derived from Greek!) It's a little bit simpler than Ancient Greek, but it still has very complex grammar (4 cases, a mediopassive verb form, verbs have several 'roots') and the sentence structure can be very complicated (until you get used to it!) so it has all the 'brain-training' properties of Latin, whilst still being a usable living language. ▲ Collapse
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| My own experience... | Mar 19, 2011 |
Ni hao,
it seems that things haven't changed since I went to school (quite a long time ago)! I was facing the very same question at the age of 13: Latin or French as second language? I took Latin because at that time I wanted to become a biologist when grown up. After three months I had to give up and change over to French - probably because I was not able think logically enough This meant catching up all the vocabular... See more Ni hao,
it seems that things haven't changed since I went to school (quite a long time ago)! I was facing the very same question at the age of 13: Latin or French as second language? I took Latin because at that time I wanted to become a biologist when grown up. After three months I had to give up and change over to French - probably because I was not able think logically enough This meant catching up all the vocabulary and grammar during my summer holiday but it really was worth while. Compared to Latin I did not have any problems with French at all...
During the last two years before Abitur (final exam in Germany), all of us got the possibility to take an optional course of the other language and so some of us "Frenchmen" went on with the so called "Minor Latinum" (Kleines Latinum, as opposed to the "Major" one with five years). Meanwhile I had indeed given up the biology dream but at the same time recognized that some Latin would not do any harm. So I took this course, too, and now at least have the word Latin in my "General Qualification for University Entrance".
You don't mention the possibility of a later (and, of course, shorter) course but if there will be one and your daughter is not too fond of languages in general and *difficult* languages with lots of grammar in particular I would consider taking French now and maybe later also Latin. As someone has already said here, it also depends on what she wants to work or study after school (though this may change!).
Whether Latin has helped me thinking more logically or not I dare not say. Probably two years are not enough and moreover, I did not like it. Much depends on how a language is taught and I have always hated mindnumbingly cramming declensions and conjugations but I could imagine learning Latin with Asterix would be really funny and make children love it!
Good luck!
Charlotte ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:13
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Bin Tiede wrote:
My younger daughter is now facing the choice of her second foreign language: Latin or French. Her school organized an information day for the parents, on which we were informed about the pros and cons of both languages. According to the Latin teacher, the biggest advantage to learn Latin is, that learning Latin will help a student to know how to learn, because Latin helps to develop your brain in a positive way, i.e. it brings order and structure in your thinking.
I’ve never learned Latin myself, and I am quite skeptical about her statement, because I don’t believe logical and strict grammatical rules will influence how one thinks, or math helps more in terms of logical thinking. Can anybody who has learned Latin at school give me some enlightenment about this? What’s your experience with Latin?
Thanks in advance.
Bin
I don't want to think logically.
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 03:13
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
| spurious arguments for Latin | Mar 20, 2011 |
I'm with the general opinion here that promoting Latin as a means to train logical thinking is as spurious an argument as the other one you often hear in this context: That knowing Latin would help you learning other languages later on. If your second foreign language is Latin, you will probably never catch up with the level in a third language that you'd have reached had you started with the third language instead of Latin.
So, if your daughter does not intrinsically prefer Latin o... See more I'm with the general opinion here that promoting Latin as a means to train logical thinking is as spurious an argument as the other one you often hear in this context: That knowing Latin would help you learning other languages later on. If your second foreign language is Latin, you will probably never catch up with the level in a third language that you'd have reached had you started with the third language instead of Latin.
So, if your daughter does not intrinsically prefer Latin or French over the other (and only then!), I'd say that going with French is better. In case she needs Latin later on (for studying medicine etc.), she will always be able to take special courses to make up leeway. Many people do.
That said, I often regret that I haven't learnt any Latin (in your daughter's situation, I chose French and made it one of my major subjects for the Abitur), but I'd chose French over Latin any time again. ▲ Collapse
| | | | wonita (X)
China
Local time: 21:13
TOPIC STARTER | A little girl’s concern | Mar 21, 2011 |
Thank you all for your inputs, which are really informative.
Whilst I am reading and pondering each of your arguments carefully, my daughter is only keen to know which language her best school friend will take. The language itself and her future career do not seem to be of any interest to her at all…
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