| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Too many requests for context Thread poster: USER00230 (X)
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cmwilliams (X) 
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:40
French to English
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| Well said, Richard! | Jan 24, 2006 |
You had the nerve to say what I was thinking!!
[Edited at 2006-01-24 22:14]
| | | | | Oops, I was wrong | Jan 24, 2006 |
In an earlier posting, I wrote:
Not sure I like this approach - it's a bit like saying "my time is much more valuable than yours, so this is all I can bothered to give you, now run along and find an answer 'cos I'm too busy to type a few words to help you out."
I now found it's not "a bit like saying..." at all. That EXACTLY what you were saying.
I quote from the question at issue, from you to someone trying to help you:
"Why didn't you google in the first place? I find your admission that you didn't even do basic research and instead sent me a message asking me to do the work for you astounding"
I nearly choked on me fag! Who is doing the work for whom, here, Bill? Who exactly didn't do basic research? Having looked at the question and proposed answers, most of which are in a similar vein, I put it to you, sir, that it is YOU who did not.
| | | | | Which proves context is everything ....... | Jan 25, 2006 |
Charlie Bavington wrote:
[Who exactly didn't do basic research? Having looked at the question and proposed answers, most of which are in a similar vein, I put it to you, sir, that it is YOU who did not.
And on that indisputable point ......
The defence rests its case, your Honour
[Edited at 2006-01-25 07:00]
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Stephen Rifkind
Israel
Local time: 02:40
Member (2004)
French to English
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Rereading all the previous comments, I come to a conclusion that can be made of all service providers: Sometimes, you get a perfect answer to your question, whether it is obvious or obscure. Othertime, you have to wade through some less than ideal answers and make up your own mind. On the other side of the spectrum, sometimes nobody answers your question. Therefore,the original question in the survey is not answerable since it depends on countless variables, i.e. language combinations, day, ... See more Rereading all the previous comments, I come to a conclusion that can be made of all service providers: Sometimes, you get a perfect answer to your question, whether it is obvious or obscure. Othertime, you have to wade through some less than ideal answers and make up your own mind. On the other side of the spectrum, sometimes nobody answers your question. Therefore,the original question in the survey is not answerable since it depends on countless variables, i.e. language combinations, day, hour, previous questions, and personalities. Proz is one source for answers. I have often gotten priceless answers. However, it is not a panacea.
Stephen Rifkind
[Edited at 2006-01-25 08:17] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Well, well... | Jan 25, 2006 |
...what I have found here? I rest my case. And I'm glad I am at the end of this thread, kinda reinforces my point.
| | | | | Thank you, Bill | Jan 25, 2006 |
In my career as a professional translator, including 28 years before you began yours, I never realized how unimportant context is.
| | | | Jane Luther
Germany
Local time: 01:40
German to English
| A last word? | Jan 25, 2006 |
Thanks to Richard for sending me this thread...
I'd just like to say that I find the ask the asker function very sensible, even if the second time I had cause to use it I was gunned down. If there were no ask button, even more people would just use the answer button to pose their questions than they do now, so reducing/ altering its function is unlikely to bring any major improvement.
As to the time factor, I'm sure that it may indeed be a hindrance for those of you nee... See more Thanks to Richard for sending me this thread...
I'd just like to say that I find the ask the asker function very sensible, even if the second time I had cause to use it I was gunned down. If there were no ask button, even more people would just use the answer button to pose their questions than they do now, so reducing/ altering its function is unlikely to bring any major improvement.
As to the time factor, I'm sure that it may indeed be a hindrance for those of you needing the points. However, I stumbled across this forum some time ago, and was very grateful to the people who took time to consider my questions and propose answers, each time exceedingly good answers. So now I take time to try and help others, too, if I feel my experience might be of use, and even if the answer requires some research despite that experience. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who doesn't care whether I get points or not... ▲ Collapse
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Fred Neild (X)
English to Spanish
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| Let's move on | Jan 25, 2006 |
Hi Bill,
We should move on, answering personal offences only makes matters worse. Maybe you could use this (whatever this thread has become) to reassess the whole issue considering both viewpoints.
It would be great if you could focus on the issue of the thread, which is quite interesting and just ignore personal attacks.
Fred
| | | | USER00230 (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:40
German to English
TOPIC STARTER | Who is helping whom? | Jan 25, 2006 |
Now, I will turn to the substantive points.
1. Who is helping whom?
Charlie Bavington wrote:
it's a bit like saying "my time is much more valuable than yours, so this is all I can bothered to give you, now run along and find an answer 'cos I'm too busy to type a few words to help you out."
This is a caricature of course. Why I am saying that my time is more valuable than yours if I don't answer a request for more context? I may be just saying that I don't have time, or that it's unnecessary in my opinion.
This is about asking a question and deciding for whatever reason that more context is not needed and/or desirable and wishing to have that respected.
But yes, once I ask a question I feel it is up to the answerer to answer. Someone said that since people are being kind enough to help you you should help them. Yes, I agree. But that is a different matter from the answerer DEMANDING something from you IN ORDER THAT HE MAY THEN "HELP" YOU. Does that sound like "help" to you?
Kudoz is an opportunity for EXPERTS to offer help on terms, in return for which they are awarded points. These points, we are told, are useful in demonstrating their expertise to potential clients.
Therefore it is fundamentally up to the answerer to answer the question, not to try and get more information to see if he can then maybe offer an answer.
Sometimes requests for context are legitimate, of course, but sometimes they are just fishing for general information when people don't really know what the question means.
What I suspect is driving this in some cases is the cut-throat environment created by points. Because people are so desperate to gain points they fire off questions about context instead of thinking about the question and reading the information with greater care, and/or just acknowledging that they don't know.
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Fred Neild (X)
English to Spanish
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| Don't underestimate translators | Jan 25, 2006 |
Bill Smyth wrote:
I think people bang on about context in Kudoz questions too much and sometimes ask for CONTEXT when really they are asking for GENERAL INFORMATION AND BACKGROUND, which is something different.
OK, let's assume this is right. I will try to change your point of view or at least make you think about it.
From what I see, there are fields (in certain pairs) which are not being covered by any colleague (participating in KudoZ regularly). So, there are certain translators that by experience, context and Google can answer very difficult terms. Let´s call them generalists.
I am one of them. Recently, I saw the question of a translator which I respect and I think this person helps a lot in KudoZ. There was only one answer for her question (confidence level 4!) that was clearly a guess or literal translation. So, I stopped what I was doing and started looking for an answer in a field I am not specialized in, but luckily the translator had provided enough context. I got an answer put confidence level 3 (should have been 2, but since the other translator put 4...) and stated that it was based on Internet research. I got the points , but this is not important (for me). I spent quite long researching since this was not one of my specialty fields, but I believe I helped this colleague. Without her context it would have been impossible, but any expert could have answered it (like you correctly state). The problem is, there was no expert around, just a helpful colleague.
Fred
| | | | | Agreeing to differ | Jan 25, 2006 |
Hi Bill,
Glad that things seem to be a bit calmer (at least, I hope so).
I continue to differ with your opinions on the substantive issue:
Bill Smyth wrote:
I think people bang on about context in Kudoz questions too much and sometimes ask for CONTEXT when really they are asking for GENERAL INFORMATION AND BACKGROUND, which is something different.
Context is important, and if I am asking for people to help me with a term, it is only polite to offer them all the help I can (and condescending to refuse to give any more information). If somebody claims that a term has no context at all, but nevertheless gives a subject area (e.g. agriculture, as in one of your questions), my question is: what makes you think it is about agriculture? Any answer you give to that question is context information. If there is no context, you have no way of knowing what subject area the word falls into.
For us as professionals, it is important to get away from a blind adherence to one-to-one "word equations". Language very often does not work like that, and a dictionary entry or single-word KudoZ answer can easily be misleading in context. I say that as someone who has been involved in writing entries for two bilingual dictionaries (I have this idea in my head for a tongue-in-cheek article I would love to write, but will probably not get round to: "Why it is impossible to write a bilingual dictionary").
Your other issue is the quick point-grabbing reflex in KudoZ. I agree that this is sometimes unhelpful. But deliberately withholding context is no solution to this problem. Unless someone can come up with a different incentive system, the only real solution is at the stage where the asker decides on the answer to use.
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