| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Adding the wrong answer to the glossary Thread poster: Salam Alrawi
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| An answer is not an obligatory choice... | Nov 15, 2014 |
1. An asker is supposed to try to find answer not only in KudoZ, having other infoes (glossaries, vocabulary etc) and going to choose between, at least, 2-3 versions of answers.
2. Next to the answerers there are again about 10-15 translators (giving "agrees" or just reading the solutions), thinking about the particular theme, having their own glossaries: they, I am sure, will sign their disagree in case.
3. The asker will check all the above mentioned more or less (it is up to his t... See more 1. An asker is supposed to try to find answer not only in KudoZ, having other infoes (glossaries, vocabulary etc) and going to choose between, at least, 2-3 versions of answers.
2. Next to the answerers there are again about 10-15 translators (giving "agrees" or just reading the solutions), thinking about the particular theme, having their own glossaries: they, I am sure, will sign their disagree in case.
3. The asker will check all the above mentioned more or less (it is up to his time).
4. With an "error" in the glossary again their is the possibility to a translator to find the mistake and sign it up at the moderators or forums.
So the possibility to meet a mistake in the kudoZ forum after all is about equivalent with the mistake in a vocabulary: it could happen, why not, but it is quite unlikely.
5. If I suggest a wrong answer, other answerer will react and correct my mistake (as it happened already) and not only asker but me too, I will definitely remember the correction.
6. The one thing I would change about is the asker who chooses between the solutions: if the choice was not only askers` but everybody interested in particular question could vote the system gave out less glossary mistakes. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ty Kendall 
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:32
Hebrew to English
| Figure of Speech | Nov 15, 2014 |
Claire Bourneton-Gerlach wrote:
don't use the word "suicide" in such a trivial matter like translating....
Thx
Claire
With all due respect, chill out.
The term "career suicide" is common enough in English and is understood to be a metaphorical use of the word. I'm pretty sure that's what the OP was aiming for.
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Tamas Elek wrote:
I think the main problem with the whole system is that it is the asker who has to choose the best answer.
It is clear that the asker asks the term, because he/she does not know the answer, or in the very least, not sure what the right answer is.
I agree.
This is precisely the main problem with KudoZ (among other problems), and it is a huge one.
It has been pointed out repeatedly by ProZ members.
| | | | James McVay
United States
Local time: 10:32
Russian to English
+ ...
What would seem a suicide to me would be blindly trusting the kudoz glossary 
I never search the glossary because I don't trust it, having seen too many selections made that I disagree with. When I do search ProZ to see how others have handled a translation problem, I use Google because I want to see all of the entries and any discussion.
That said, I don't see nearly as many problems in the Ru-En and Bu-En pairs as people report in other language pairs.
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Kirsten Bodart
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:32
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Don't exaggerate | Nov 16, 2014 |
Miguel Carmona wrote: Tamas Elek wrote:
I think the main problem with the whole system is that it is the asker who has to choose the best answer.
It is clear that the asker asks the term, because he/she does not know the answer, or in the very least, not sure what the right answer is. I agree. This is precisely the main problem with KudoZ (among other problems), and it is a huge one. It has been pointed out repeatedly by ProZ members.
Essentially Kudoz is here to tell you what your peers think the answer to your question is, i.e. their opinion on what term/structure/whatever you should use. That's an OPINION and who would just blindly accept someone's opinion without questioning it? And some of these people will know more about the subject than others, but still, faced with answers, you need to research to verify.
So if the asker selects the totally wrong answer, it's their own problem.
| | | | | Is is still possible to "moderate" this title? | Nov 16, 2014 |
sorry: Is it possible to "moderate" this title? It may be understood as a suicide induced by a wrong translation... Very upsetting.
Claire Bourneton-Gerlach wrote:
don't use the word "suicide" in such a trivial matter like translating....
Thx
Claire
[Edited at 2014-11-16 16:47 GMT]
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Kirsten Bodart wrote: Miguel Carmona wrote: Tamas Elek wrote:
I think the main problem with the whole system is that it is the asker who has to choose the best answer.
It is clear that the asker asks the term, because he/she does not know the answer, or in the very least, not sure what the right answer is. I agree. This is precisely the main problem with KudoZ (among other problems), and it is a huge one. It has been pointed out repeatedly by ProZ members. Essentially Kudoz is here to tell you what your peers think the answer to your question is, i.e. their opinion on what term/structure/whatever you should use. That's an OPINION and who would just blindly accept someone's opinion without questioning it? And some of these people will know more about the subject than others, but still, faced with answers, you need to research to verify. So if the asker selects the totally wrong answer, it's their own problem.
@Kirsten:
Let's us not forget another aspect of the problem with wrong answers: the KudoZ glossary.
Following your own logic, the KudoZ glossary is made up by a very large amount of OPINIONS (your own word), and many of the terms that now form part of the glossary are totally wrong answers (your own words), since whatever answer is chosen by the asker, automatically goes into the glossary because that is how KudoZ works.
So, as you can easily see, choosing the totally wrong answer is not just the asker's problem; it is actually many more people's problem, simply because such a wrong answer becomes an official part of the KudoZ glossary.
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 10:32
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Are you implying that the asker still doesn't know the answer even if his question has been answered | Nov 16, 2014 |
Tamas Elek wrote:
I think the main problem with the whole system is that it is the asker who has to choose the best answer.
It is clear that the asker asks the term, because he/she does not know the answer, or in the very least, not sure what the right answer is.
[Edited at 2014-11-15 11:06 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-11-15 11:08 GMT]
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 10:32
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Removed by poster | Nov 16, 2014 |
[Edited at 2014-11-16 18:26 GMT]
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 10:32
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Tamas Elek wrote:
I think the main problem with the whole system is that it is the asker who has to choose the best answer.
It is clear that the asker asks the term, because he/she does not know the answer, or in the very least, not sure what the right answer is. Obviously, there is no perfect way, but I think automatic selection based on peer agreement may be a better solution, although I also had the chance to see wrong answers with 4-5 agrees on it. In the alternative, in the very least some other way should be provided to override the glossary based on peer agreement or in some other way. Another solution might be to prevent terms entered into the glossary without a certain number of peer agrees.
Having a glossary with lots of wrong terms is actually worse than having no glossary at all. What is even worse, if someone runs an online search, these terms come in the very beginning of the search results, so there is an inherent risk that a wrong term may be used over and over again.
For now, the only solution is not to trust the glossary without double checking it.
[Edited at 2014-11-15 11:06 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-11-15 11:08 GMT]
I think some peers put "agree" just to earn Browniz points. A few years ago I saw some people in my pair always agreed with every answer provided.
"automatic selection based on peer agreement" will encourage point grabbers to rush without thoroughly researching on the question, simply because the earlier an answer appears, the higher the chance that it will get more agrees. This, in the long run, would lower the quality of the glossary.
NO glossary is perfect. In my language pair, several dictionaries always come up first in the list of Google hits but they are full of mistakes. Some of them were compiled by college students because the developer didn't want to pay professionals; others just collected what was available on the internet, and a lot of entries were based on machine translations.
A glossary is only a reference. If someone just grabs whatever in a glossary without critical thinking, all we can say they have a long way to go/they have a lot to learn. The use of any glossary entry is limited anyway. There is no universally correct entry in any glossary/dictionary without listing all possible contexts. A glossary is not a magical solution for all situation.
[Edited at 2014-11-16 18:27 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-11-16 18:28 GMT]
| | | | Salam Alrawi
United States
Local time: 09:32
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | "several times" they don't | Nov 16, 2014 |
@jyuan_us
Many translators ask the question because the term doesn't make sense for them. So, several times they don't really know if the answer is right or wrong. They just know they don't have enough time due to the deadline and they need the answer asap. And if they see an answer with couple "agree" or even without or it is the only answer, they will go with it.
There are many cases in which an answerer says something like this: "the answer I provided is so very com... See more @jyuan_us
Many translators ask the question because the term doesn't make sense for them. So, several times they don't really know if the answer is right or wrong. They just know they don't have enough time due to the deadline and they need the answer asap. And if they see an answer with couple "agree" or even without or it is the only answer, they will go with it.
There are many cases in which an answerer says something like this: "the answer I provided is so very common in this situation", "I have worked in such place", "I have many friends who speak that language", they use such way to drug the asker, it is like adding morphine to the i.v. fluid to get the asker to relax and affect his judgement. The answerer doesn't give a link to support his answer, and if he/she does then the link is not good or supportive enough to the answer.
For example: same way that you guys question if proz glossary is right or wrong, same thing apply to the online dictionary websites out there. there are tons of those online dictionaries, and the funny part is: same people who answer kudoz on proz or any other websites are the same people who answer or put the terms on the online dictionary websites , but yet when a link from those online dictionary websites is provided with the answer, it will make the answer looks good, just like anesthetic drug is given to someone who just got out of surgery.
One more thing I have noticed: the answerer divides the term and gives a link to an online dictionary meaning to each word. This actually can make the problem worse. a two words term can change the meaning way far then when you translate each word on its own.
Or you answer "duty officer" and someone comes in and instead of agreeing to you, no, he answers it as "officer on duty" several minutes later and wins the answer and with all "4" points after telling the asker how common his answer is in real life and how he used that term when he worked here and there, this is just sad as much as it is funny . This is just discouraging. I think many "askers" and "answerers" need kudoz training.
I actually started to avoid answering as much as I could to avoid unprofessional people. ▲ Collapse
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