May 8, 2021 16:13
3 yrs ago
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Latin term
Ireland
quat jam Ecclesiae usus obtinuit, &c
Latin to English
Other
Religion
The phrase is from the “A Commentary upon the Book of the Revelation”, by James Durham, and the context:
When yet his scope is clear to lessen that distance of superiority that seemed to be between him and him, because of these titles. 2. The very expression will bear the same, quat jam Ecclesiae usus obtinuit, &c. which necessarily importeth, that sometimes such difference was not in custom in the church: and where will it be found in Augustine, that he compareth any custom of the church after Christ with what was before, as different customs of different times of the same church? for to him, and almost all the fathers, usus, or consuetudo ecclesiae, is ever taken, when given, as a ground of any practice as contradistinguished from divine institution, as in the last cited words of Jerome is clear. Also, it may have its own weight, that he is now writing to Jerome, whose judgment in these things was not unknown to him: He must therefore be supposed to use the same, as it was understood by him.
When yet his scope is clear to lessen that distance of superiority that seemed to be between him and him, because of these titles. 2. The very expression will bear the same, quat jam Ecclesiae usus obtinuit, &c. which necessarily importeth, that sometimes such difference was not in custom in the church: and where will it be found in Augustine, that he compareth any custom of the church after Christ with what was before, as different customs of different times of the same church? for to him, and almost all the fathers, usus, or consuetudo ecclesiae, is ever taken, when given, as a ground of any practice as contradistinguished from divine institution, as in the last cited words of Jerome is clear. Also, it may have its own weight, that he is now writing to Jerome, whose judgment in these things was not unknown to him: He must therefore be supposed to use the same, as it was understood by him.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | which custom has already acquired to the Church, etc. |
Mark Pleas
|
Proposed translations
38 mins
Mark Pleas
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Related KudoZ points
:
24
Selected
which custom has already acquired to the Church, etc.
In this quotation from Augustine, “Ecclesiae” seems to be in the dative case. Literally, Augustine has “custom” carrying out the action, i.e., “custom has already [i.e., before this time] presented to the Church”, but in English we would say that this custom has already come into being in the Church.
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Note added at 49 mins (2021-05-08 17:03:17 GMT)
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Incidentally, the transcription should be "quae" rather than "quat".
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Note added at 2 days 23 hrs (2021-05-11 15:30:52 GMT) Post-grading
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You're very welcome. Actually, "acquired to" is not good English, but here Augustine seems to be depicting "custom" almost as some sort of external force that is imposing its will on the Church. So "custom" acquired the titles "for" the Church, but the Church did not ask for them. I think the correct translation should be somewhere between "acquired/gained for" and "imposed on".
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Note added at 49 mins (2021-05-08 17:03:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Incidentally, the transcription should be "quae" rather than "quat".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 23 hrs (2021-05-11 15:30:52 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
You're very welcome. Actually, "acquired to" is not good English, but here Augustine seems to be depicting "custom" almost as some sort of external force that is imposing its will on the Church. So "custom" acquired the titles "for" the Church, but the Church did not ask for them. I think the correct translation should be somewhere between "acquired/gained for" and "imposed on".
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Many thanks Mark, your explanation is very good and professional."
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