Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Italian term
dott./dott.ssa
Thank you all.
Jun 15, 2010 16:28: SYLVY75 changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"
Jun 16, 2010 15:32: Tom in London Created KOG entry
Non-PRO (3): ARS54, philgoddard, SYLVY75
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Proposed translations
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agree |
Michael McCann
: Yes, agree
5 mins
|
agree |
philgoddard
: The Guardian style guide says only use Dr for doctors of medicine.
26 mins
|
agree |
James (Jim) Davis
: This is another way - if the people concerned don't complain, "Eng." for ingegnere does look pretty ridiculous.
32 mins
|
agree |
Simon Lewis
: Absolutely. Otherwise you have to try and translate arch. / ing. etc. etc. and it's going to sound ridiculous in English
1 hr
|
agree |
Claudia Cherici
5 hrs
|
Prof (for professor), Dr (for other academic), Mr/Ms (otherwise)
Also, in order to avoid the minefield of irrelevance about whether the women involved are married or not, the somewhat ugly modern catch-all of Ms can be used until the English-speaking world comes up with something better.
HTH.
agree |
Monia Di Martino
: Perfect.
7 mins
|
agree |
Peter Cox
1 hr
|
agree |
Valentina Mellone
: that's a good explanation. As far as I know, "Dr." is also used for graduates in Medicine.
1 hr
|
neutral |
S E (X)
: if the need is to formally address each person directly, as in an invitation or email, yes, definitely, nary a doubt.
3 hrs
|
agree |
John Walsh
: totally agree.....but I don't think "Ms" is ugly ;)
1 day 4 hrs
|
Esq.
I know this a common debate for translators.
I use 'esquire' to be a polite title placed after a person's name when no other title is used. As no title is used for undergraduates - usually - in English/American systems - I feel dragging out 'esquire' is fair.
It's definitely not a technique common in translating - but I've never found another solution I liked.
Calling somone with a 'laurea' level of study 'doctor' is misleading at best.
I feel the use of 'dottore' in modern Italian society is a recognition of 'social' status more than anything. They same way they use the title 'engineer' or 'lawyer' in front of names - which is not a modern English custom either. Because, 'esquire' is defined - see Wikipedia - as a social title - I find it a suitable equivalent for 'dottore.'
I don't believe 'googling' is much help on this issue - nor dictionaries - so I hope my solution catches on.
I love this definition for 'dottore' in Wikipedia (English) - "Il Dottore is a local angry disruptive busybody who doesn't listen to anyone else from any of the fields that he claims to know about, which is many (medicine, law, etc.). He is traditionally portrayed as having been educated either in Bologna or Padua, which since the Renaissance had two of the most prestigious universities of Italy and Europe." Of course this is 'dottore' in the dramatic sense!
\
neutral |
James (Jim) Davis
: In the UK people with nothing else like a B.A. or B.Sc. to put after their name, use esq as better than nothing, so when you read it you know they have no degree. This person has a degree, so it would be totally wrong, like saying black instead of white.
20 hrs
|
Exactly - I agree - that's why I suggested it - as to paraphrase your words - there's nothing better to put
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BSc, BA, MSc, MA etc.
PhD, MA, MArch, MFA, MS, etc. - in a list of names, in America
When not addressing the person directly, but listing him/her, for example on a conference program, these often go after the name:
PhD = Dottore di ricerca (dottorato di ricerca)
MA = Dottore magistriale (specializzazione)
[BA = Dottore (laurea) - I can't say I've ever seen anyone list the BA after their name, and I list it here only for comparative purposes.]
Lawyers often use JD (juris doctor/doctorate).
People who have gone to business school, MBA.
The translation for someone with a "specializzazione" is tricky, because in addition to the Master of Arts (MA), there is also the MS (Master of Science), the MArch (Master of Architecture), MFA (Master of Fine Arts), and etc.
Although, as Tom in London wrote, such lists sometimes don't include such information because its assumed, for example in a small field where everyone knows each other.
I'm sure of this, if it is for an American context, because I'm an academic (now Ph.D., but before that MPhil, and before that MA) and have been dealing with this issue for a decade and a half. :-)
What I am not sure of is how you need to use the names. So, if you need to write to these people individually, I would go with Oliver's answer. And definitely, Ms. is what female professionals in America use, regardless of marital status.
dott./dott.ssa (in italics - corsivo)
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Note added at 21 hrs (2010-06-16 07:30:09 GMT)
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Glad you mentioned that Ambra, I had meant to say it. Once I put all the titles of the top managment of a very large and austere company in Italics on this basis. Then my contact in the company (at a much lower level) just said "Cav Lav" looks silly in English and she demoted them all at a stroke. Luckily none complained :)
agree |
Ambra Giuliani
: Given how touchy we Italians are about titles and how it could be perceived as offensive to omit such an "ethereal" title, I usually leave it as is. Nobody has ever complained, yet.
7 hrs
|
Glad you mentioned that Ambra, I had meant to say it.
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|
agree |
Inter-Tra
: Absolutely. Agree 100%. In a congress it is required.
9 hrs
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Discussion
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