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Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

bis auf mindestens 10 %

English translation:

(to release the vaccuum) by 90 % at least

Added to glossary by David Williams
Oct 13, 2008 15:28
15 yrs ago
German term

bis auf mindestens 10 %

German to English Tech/Engineering Manufacturing Autoclaves
I'm rather confused by what "bis auf mindestens 10 % zurückzunehmen" could mean in the context of curing adhesives in an autoclave:

Das Vakuum ist im allgemeinen nach Härtungsdruckbeaufschlagung bis auf mindestens 10 % zurückzunehmen.

How can any vacuum be left after pressure is applied? Could there be a press to exert compressive force under a vacuum? Also, does it mean the vacuum has to be decreased to at least 10%, to all but 10% or by at least 10%?
Proposed translations (English)
4 (to release the vaccuum) by 90 % at least
2 +2 reduced by at least 10%

Discussion

David Williams (asker) Oct 28, 2008:
Post grading The customer meant "decreased to at least 10%".
David Williams (asker) Oct 14, 2008:
Logical inconsistency Thanks! But it could also mean release all but 10% of the vacuum, i.e. 90% of the way from whatever the vacuum was to atmospheric pressure, as Johannes suggests, couldn't it?

And I always thought (past tense) that the Germans were a logical, orderl-loving nation... It's amazing they are so successful given such confusion and illogical form of expression!
Ken Cox Oct 14, 2008:
my interpretation after the pressure (vacuum level) for curing has been reached, the vacuum should be reduced by at least 10% (which IMO would mean an increase in absolute pressure, but I recommend asking the client for confirmation).

Logical inconsistency (such as 'bis auf mindestens') and redundancy (such as 'das maximale Wert sollte nicht höher als 2 bar max. sein') are quite common in German in expressions involving minimum and maximum values.
David Williams (asker) Oct 14, 2008:
Absolute Thank you. So, given that, am I right in assuming that this would mean reducing the pressure to 10% of atmospheric pressure? If so, then why "mindestens", does it mean ≥10% or ≤10%?
Ken Cox Oct 13, 2008:
comment In engineering German, anything above an absolute vacuum can be (and is) called 'Druck', unlike conventional English where 'pressure' is conventionally understood to mean something above atmospheric pressure (as opposed to 'absolute pressure', which is referenced to a perfect vacuum). 'Härtungsdruck' thus means the absolute pressure used for curing, which in this case is apparently less than atmospheric pressure. In German, pressure relative to atmospheric pressure is usually called 'Unterdruck' (English 'vacuum') or 'Überdruck' (English 'pressure').
Johannes Gleim Oct 13, 2008:
@ C.H.: to decrease the pressure to 10 % of the vaccuum ? This is an augmention in pressure until up to 90 % of athmospheric pressure.
jccantrell Oct 13, 2008:
Usually, in my business, they specify a vacuum as some sort of pressure. However, I **envision** that they are saying that if pressure is 14" of mercury, then you make the vacuum to at least 1.4" of mercury or even lower. That is how I would understand it
jccantrell Oct 13, 2008:
Speaking as someone who works with satellites, which are tested in a vacuum, yes, they can put all sorts of extra devices into a chamber and then draw down the pressure. You just need a large enough 'room' to fit all the stuff in.

Proposed translations

2 hrs
Selected

(to release the vaccuum) by 90 % at least

4.1 Mixing of the investment compound
Premix powder and liquid in a clean mixing bowl of the evacuating unit. Then place the investment under vacuum for a short time and mix under vacuum for 60 sec.
http://www.degudent.de/Kommunikation_und_Service/Download/Ve...

Die besten Resultate werden mit einem evakuierbaren Wärmeschrank erzielt, weil darinn die Proben unter Vakuum aushärten können.
http://titan.minpet.unibas.ch/minpet/groups/vorlesungen.cdc/...

Zur Isolierung von Wicklungselementen in rotierenden elektrischen Hochspannungsmaschinen hat sich in den letzten Jahren die Tränktechnik auf Basis einer Vakuum-Druckimprägnierung stark durchgesetzt. ...
Diese durchtränken nun im Vakuum und unter Druck die aus mehreren Wicklungslagen gebildete, Glimmer-hältige Hauptisolation, sodaß Hohlräume, welche zwischen den Wicklungslagen Teilentladungen hervorrufen können, vollständig ausgefüllt werden, sodaß nach Aushärtung des Imprägnierharzes eine elektrisch und mechanisch stabile Isolationshülse gebildet wird. ...
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?IA=EP1999007669&DISPLAY=...

Vor der eigentlichen Behandlung mit Holzschutzmitteln wird teilweise noch mit einem Vakuum von maximal 40 mbar Absolutdruck die Luft aus dem Holz gezogen; diese Vakuumphase dauert in der Regel 30-40 Minuten. Danach wird der Imprägnierzylinder mit dem Tränkmittel geflutet und, teils unter Temperaturerhöhung, unter Druck gesetzt. Die Nachschaltung eines Schlussvakuums (meist 10-15 Minuten) nach dem Entleeren der Zylinder wird normalerweise durchgeführt, um überschüssiges Mittel zurück zu gewinnen.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holzschutzverfahren

Das Vakuum auf mindestens 10 % zurücknehmen => to release the vaccuum by 90 % at least
not to mismatch with
Das Vakuum um 10 % zurücknehmen => to release the vaccuum by 10 % (as SusieZ and jccantrell understood)

Explication: 100 % vaccuum means zero pressure. 50 % is 0.5 bar 0 % is 1 bar. 10 % vaccuum is 0.9 bar.

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Note added at 8 Stunden (2008-10-14 00:00:44 GMT)
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Corrections:

(to release the vacuum) by 90 % at least

Das Vakuum auf mindestens 10 % zurücknehmen => to release the vaccuum by 90 % at least
not to mismatch with
Das Vakuum um 10 % zurücknehmen => to release the vacuum by 10 % (as SusieZ and jccantrell understood)

Explanation: 100 % vacuum means zero pressure. 50 % is 0.5 bar 0 % is 1 bar. 10 % vaccuum is 0.9 bar.

Please compare Ken Cox' Reference. Vacuum => Unterdruck, den Unterdruck zurücknehmen. 10 % Unterdruck = 90 % absolute pressure.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks! This does indeed seem to be the correct interpretation."
+2
18 mins

reduced by at least 10%

I'm not sure how this is technically accomplished, but I do read that it is to be reduced by at least 10%.

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Note added at 21 mins (2008-10-13 15:50:03 GMT)
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No, after reading JC's answer, he is correct. ...decreased to 10% or lower.
Peer comment(s):
agree Birgit Mann
1 hr
agree interpr8er : w/ JC to be decreased to at least 10% ... or lower...
1 hr
disagree Johannes Gleim : I understood differently (see my answer).
1 hr
agree Lancashireman : 10% is 10% in any language.
18 hrs
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