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lernen + in + Dat

English translation: learn within (the bounds of)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:lernen in + Dat
English translation:learn within (the bounds of)
Entered by: Erik Macki

13:27 Aug 26, 2004
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Linguistics
German term or phrase: lernen + in + Dat
Hello,

Has anybody encountered this syntxa of the verb "lernen"? What does it mean "in etwas lernen"?

Herzlichsten Dank!
Kathy
learn within
Explanation:
It seems to me that that this isn't idiomatic at all--it means to learn in (within, inside of). The writer means quite literally that Jesus had to learn within his human characteristics. In other words, he had to acquire knowledge inside the inherent limits of his human nature. Now the problem is how to phrase that concept with diction appropriate to a theological text. Perhaps any of thse:

Jesus had to learn within his human characteristics.
Jesus had to learn in the context of his human characteristics.
Jesus had to learn within the bounds of his human characteristics.
Jesus had to learn within (the bounds of) his humanity.
Etc. ad nauseam

This is why Lutheran seminary students learn to read in the original German... :-)
Selected response from:

Erik Macki
Local time: 12:14
Grading comment
Thank you!
I wish I could give the points to each and everyone.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2with regard to/in terms of
Brainstorm
3 +2human abilities
stra
4 +1learn within
Erik Macki
4human side
Klaus Herrmann
3Jesus had to learn too, and had to turn his human qualities to God more and more
Anne Brackenborough (X)
3 -1to improve
Aniello Scognamiglio (X)


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


21 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
to improve


Explanation:
in this case, I would suggest "improve": Jesus had to improve his human (interpersonal) skills; or sth along these lines.

Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 21:14
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Ellen Zittinger: not his human qualities, but had to learn within his human limitations, as he was also God, but in human form
8 hrs
  -> I am not sure you are right, Ellen. The German is strange anyway. A precise translation is not a piece of cake here.
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25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
human side


Explanation:
I think "in seinem menschlichen Eigenschaften" primarily adresses his human side (vs. his divine side).

Klaus Herrmann
Germany
Local time: 21:14
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Ellen Zittinger: seinen,,,,not clear what you mean?
8 hrs
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26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
human abilities


Explanation:
"Jesus had to use his human abilities when he was learning/growing up."

I'm not sure if it's correct because I don't know the context. By the way, this is not an 'easy' question.

stra
Local time: 22:14
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Aniello Scognamiglio (X): other than to use he had to improve his human abilities.
15 mins
  -> thanks for your comment, but I'm not sure if you are right
agree  Erik Macki: This translation gets at what I think is the fundamental sense of the sentence, and is actually a clear and effective paraphrase.
2 hrs
  -> thanks
agree  Johanna Timm, PhD: "develop " would be an alternative
7 hrs
  -> thanks
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31 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
with regard to/in terms of


Explanation:
to learn with regard to his/ as far as his human qualities were concerned

with regard to his human nature as in http://www.gospelcom.net/eword/comments/john/wesley/john7.ht...

"For only He who is God, could learn in His human experience, the full reality of what it means to be a child of God; "



    Reference: http://www.the-examiner.org/articles.asp?serial=2
Brainstorm
Austria
Local time: 21:14
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  gangels (X)
38 mins
agree  roneill
1 hr
neutral  Erik Macki: This is the right track, but it implies he is learning about his human qualities, not learning within the bounds of them--which is how I read it.
1 hr
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
learn within


Explanation:
It seems to me that that this isn't idiomatic at all--it means to learn in (within, inside of). The writer means quite literally that Jesus had to learn within his human characteristics. In other words, he had to acquire knowledge inside the inherent limits of his human nature. Now the problem is how to phrase that concept with diction appropriate to a theological text. Perhaps any of thse:

Jesus had to learn within his human characteristics.
Jesus had to learn in the context of his human characteristics.
Jesus had to learn within the bounds of his human characteristics.
Jesus had to learn within (the bounds of) his humanity.
Etc. ad nauseam

This is why Lutheran seminary students learn to read in the original German... :-)

Erik Macki
Local time: 12:14
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Thank you!
I wish I could give the points to each and everyone.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ellen Zittinger: reflects context most
6 hrs
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Jesus had to learn too, and had to turn his human qualities to God more and more


Explanation:
The German sentence seems to be a rather odd translation of an English one on the internet. See http://www.ways-of-christ.net/en1234/08.htm - there is a link to the German version, http://www.christuswege.net/de1234/08.htm, with the sentence you refer to. The rest of the text has also been translated.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 36 mins (2004-08-26 18:03:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

whoops, sorry, wrong confidence level! Make it a 5.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs 17 mins (2004-08-27 06:45:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Original English text on ways-of-christ.net:
\"Main text part 1, The Gospels, chapter : The temptations, and calling the disciples. Jesus had to learn too, and had to turn his human qualities to God more and more. After 40 days fasting in the desert the \"Tempter\" appeared (e.g. Matthew 4, 1-11). Even in \"normal\" life negative powers appear, both inwardly and in everyday life. They can also be looked on as something with form, i.e. as real entities. First of all, there are retarded and isolated tendencies in humans themselves - when active without the connecting heart; these isolated thoughts and subsequently isolated will is one meaning of \"eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge\" (Genesis).\"

German text on the translated German version of that page from which Kathy\'s question comes:

\"Haupttext Teil 1, Die Schritte in den Evangelien; Kapitel : Die Versuchungen und die Berufung der Jünger. Auch Jesus mußte in seinen menschlichen Eigenschaften lernen und sie immer stärker Gott zuwenden. Nach 40 Tagen Fasten in der Wüste erschien der „Versucher\" - z.B. Matth. 4, 1-11 Auch im kleineren Maßstab treten negative Kräfte, die – wie alle Kräfte – auch als etwas Gestalthaftes empfunden werden können, auf inneren Wegen und im Leben zutage. Zunächst sind hier zurückgebliebene, verselbständigte Tendenzen im Menschen selbst zu nennen, ohne das integrierende Herz und damit ohne Gott; auf diese Verselbständigung zuerst des Denkens und daraufhin dann auch des Willens bezieht sich das „Essen der Frucht vom Baum der Erkenntnis\".\"



Anne Brackenborough (X)
Germany
Local time: 21:14
Works in field
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Ellen Zittinger: very confusing....
4 hrs
  -> Hope to have cleared up confusion in my note; the query is apparently the attempted translation of an English text.
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