Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Ermahnung vs. Abmahnung

English translation:

reprimand vs. warning notice

Added to glossary by Tatijana Kostovska
Dec 17, 2020 12:42
3 yrs ago
36 viewers *
German term

Ermahnung vs. Abmahnung

German to English Law/Patents Human Resources
Both of these terms are a part of an attorneys letter to the company. I did see that both terms are already translated in the Glossary, but would like your help in understanding the different translations in this context.

Following is the sentence:

Gegenstand der Beauftragung ist die meinem Mandanten erteilte Ermahnung, die im Hinblick auf die Formulierung des Schreibens auch als Abmahnung gewertet werden könnte.


Thank you so much for any suggestions.
Change log

Dec 17, 2020 18:17: Steffen Walter changed "Field" from "Other" to "Law/Patents"

Discussion

Adrian MM. Dec 18, 2020:
@ Björn - Abmahnung always written in LIE your refs are Germano-centric: https://www.liechtensteinjobs.li/ratgeber/arbeit/muss-eine-a...
Björn Vrooman Dec 18, 2020:
@Adrian Yes, an Ermahnung can be verbal--but that is also true for an Abmahnung:
https://www.ra-skwar.de/arbeitsrecht kuendigung.htm#1
https://www.arbeitsrechte.de/muendliche-abmahnung/

I'm not totally sold on formal vs. informal, though it's better than reprimand vs. warning because "an employee warning letter is also known as a written warning, letter of reprimand, disciplinary form, and warning notice," so that is no help [https://www.upcounsel.com/employee-behavior-warning-letter]; I think you need to focus on "final" (which you have, as I had indirectly said below). Plus, even a verbal one should be documented (see first ENS link I posted). We could take out "written" if you want.

Though please keep in mind that it says "Formulierung des Schreibens," i.e., in this particular context, we are definitely talking about a written warning.

Best
Adrian MM. Dec 18, 2020:
@ Björn - Ermahnung can be verbal > mündlich ... so oral or written. I didn't insert these variations after informal lest the answer became open to criticism as 'too long'.

Obiter, I know as a past clerk from my Hamburg law office that our Bürovorsteher - paradoxically from Dachau - received a 'tongue-lashing' Ermahnung a couple of times from Big Boss: a Patentfachanwältin who had been born 'Helene Fischer'.
Björn Vrooman Dec 18, 2020:
Hello Tatijana If you read this https://www.hensche.de/Rechtsanwalt_Arbeitsrecht_Handbuch_Ab...

and compare it to progressive discipline policies, such as
https://hr.vanderbilt.edu/policies/progressive-discipline.ph...

the choice here is between "written warning" and "final written warning," as some have already suggested in one way or another.

Same on this UK page: https://croner.co.uk/resources/disciplinary-grievances/writt...

It's not just verbal and suspension isn't part of it either, IMO.

Best wishes
Tatijana Kostovska (asker) Dec 17, 2020:
hello and thank you your support. this is an attorney letter to a company supporting his client (the employee of this company) who received a warning for an alleged incident.
philgoddard Dec 17, 2020:
Could you tell us what this is about and give us a few paragraphs of German context, please.

Proposed translations

+3
2 hrs
Selected

reprimand vs. warning notice

I am no expert in labor law but I imagine this could indicate a pattern similar to the one laid out below:

"For example, in the first provision, the employee receives a copy of the report; and in the second, concerned with avoidable accidents , there is progressive discipline including both a letter of reprimand followed by a warning notice:"

From "Privacy Provisions in Major Collective Bargaining Agreements"
https://books.google.com/books?id=3btIAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA9&lpg=PA...
Note from asker:
Thank you for this answer. I chose it as the most suitable option and it worked fine in the context.
Peer comment(s):

agree Kathi Stock
19 mins
agree philgoddard
37 mins
agree Z-Translations Translator
4 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
3 hrs

reprimand vs. disciplinary warning

Depending on the exact context, you could also use "disciplinary warning" for Abmahnung.
This would emphasize that the reprimand could also serve as a document in legal proceedings and that some type of (disciplinary) action will be taken after someone receives the warning.
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4 hrs

first informal warning vs. final formal warning

Low level of confidence as I have no idea what German-speaking country this is from and how eine Verwarnung would then fit into the picture: possibly a second-stage warning.

Some UK directors and officers - who are not exactly models of competence and restrained behaviour themselves - dress up the first idea as a 'first reminder'.

Ermahnung: admonition vs. Abmahnung cease-and-desist letter: Dietl / Lorenz.
Example sentence:

"Einer Ermahnung fehlt die Warnfunktion. Für eine verhaltenbedingte Kündigung reicht sie nicht aus", so Jörg Hoffmann, Fachanwalt für Arbeitsrecht in Bochum. "

Eine Abmahnung hat eine ausdrückliche Warnfunktion und kann im Falle einer Wiederholung eine verhaltensbedingte Kündigung seitens des Arbeitgebers nach sich ziehen.

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10 hrs

admonition vs. final warning

reprimand is more of a 'Tadel'
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