Grünkohl

08:26 Sep 1, 2011 

I would never have imagined that we could all get so worked up about cabbages. What an interesting discussion ;-) Although curly kale does sound a whole lot sexier for a marketing blurb about cabbages, I opted for kale in the end, with a mention of Grünkohl early on in the text. Thank you to all for such an interesting and lively discussion - we certainly all know our greens now!

11:13 Aug 31, 2011 

I'd rather eat my Bregenwurst or Pinkel without the Braunkohl (= Grünkohl), thank you very much. Kale doesn't really turn me on and that's why I think it's best left to cattle!
But I'm willing to be converted. On my next trip to Dublin, I really must try colcannon, Jaime.

09:41 Aug 31, 2011 

who combines cow fodder and kale in a marketing text should turn in their license! Not that I've any beef with beef, unless it's on the table, then filet and ground round are welcome.

09:37 Aug 31, 2011 

I must say that I agree with you on the marketing benefits of using "curly kale", which does indeed sound cuter than "kale", but I'm not sure that the association between the word "kale" and cattle fodder is particularly strong (and anyway, the association between "turnip" and pigs, doesn't seem to be all that relevant to marketing concerns). I do remember, however, that the bags of Grünkohl I buy in the supermarket on my visits home to Ireland are marked "kale". If "curly kale" can't be used, because it refers just to one type of Grünkohl in the text, then I don't really see the problem. I'm a bit of a fan of kale myself, and not just in colcannon (which dilutes the taste in mashed spuds), as long as it's kept strictly apart from Pinkel (sorry to all Pinkel fans). Thanks for the good wishes, and best wishes back to you all!

09:28 Aug 31, 2011 

I know collard greens aren't kale, although there is an umistakeable cognate lurking in the name. Of course kohl/kale, too. BUT the taste of collards/Grünkohl is closer to kale/Grünkohl. In the States collards are used for "Rouladen" and the leaves are cooked with butter, bacon and onion, and doused with vineagar exactly as they are here in my region of Germany. Whatever, when Jeux de Mots has made her decision, we can have a cook-off! Have fun and be well!

09:18 Aug 31, 2011 

For what it's worth, I don't think it would be appropriate to leave "Grünkohl" untranslated. For one thing, it would get mixed up in people's minds with green cabbage, which is a different beast, and for another, there are two or three perfectly good terms in English for it. Besides, kale is not a particularly uniquely German dish, It's a traditional Hallowe'en staple where I come from too. Boiled (not too much) and mixed with butter and mashed potatoes, it makes colcannon which, as every Irishman and woman knows, is the only way to eat kale.

09:11 Aug 31, 2011 

... is simply the species name for all sorts of brassica from cauliflower to emmm kale.

09:09 Aug 31, 2011 

Grünkohl is generally referred to by connoisseurs of this delicious vegetable as 'kale' or 'curly kale'.

Neither kale nor curly kale seem to be regional terms.

'Collard greens' may be close, but no cigar!

08:53 Aug 31, 2011 

Collard greens is not a term specific to the South, I bought them in New York and in San Francisco, and ate them in restaurants as well. My arguement is that the taste is nearly identical, and should the recipes succeed, then collards would be the better choice.

Hey! Who would of thought that something so easy could be time consuming? Sorry, Jeux de Mots, that I suggested changing to non-pro, this is definately a stickler!

08:48 Aug 31, 2011 

however I would NOT use a regional term - Grünkohl is Grünkohl the same as a hamburger is a Hamburger in Germany (if we would translate that to Fleischbratling im Brötchen" everybody would associate that with a decent Brötchen and a decent Bratling...) etc. // Meal translation is a delicate matter ... delicate indeed ;-)

08:46 Aug 31, 2011 

Collard Greens - Dr. Peter D'Adamo
SCIENTIFIC NAME: BRASSICA OLERACEA L ... Long a staple of SOUL FOOD, collard (also called collard greens and just plain collards )

I hated this as a kid and will never forget the taste, which is nearly the same as Grünkohl - which I crave as an adult. The plant looks somewhat different, grows in the same form.

08:41 Aug 31, 2011 

What you may want to consider is the term "collards" or "collard greens", which is very popular in the Southern States and, in some gardens, identical to "Grünkohl", it also has the same Latin name. Collard greens is an obvious cognate for "Grünkohl", don't you think?

08:37 Aug 31, 2011 

for your US insight!

08:27 Aug 31, 2011 

Kale is quite common in the US, it's just that not too many people enjoy its very particular taste. Which is perhaps why there is a need for marketing?! In any case, the term would be easily understood.

08:22 Aug 31, 2011 

usage definitely not throughout the text, once is enough -

@ Jeux de Mots: once you introduced Grünkohl (kale) you can simply use Grünkohl (or kale) afterwards; but Ramey (not UK, excuse me!) is right, you should get the client's approval or at least discuss the matter with your client

08:20 Aug 31, 2011 

I certainly do get the point Anne - in fact, I have 4000 words in front of me explaining the importance of this vegetable ;-) The German needs to be included at some point with an explanation, but my issue is with finding a precise, appealing translation for use throughout the document.

08:16 Aug 31, 2011 

Well, I do get the point, and find it also important to include the German word for kale in the text, because no indigenous foods are exactly like their cousins in other countries (I'm from the US, by the way). Brassica oleracea is kale, yes and Grünkohl - but this IS a translation. Your suggestion is good, but I wouldn't use it throughout the text without the client's approval. Maybe you'd like to ask him/her, Jeux de Mots?

08:10 Aug 31, 2011 

translation of Grünkohl as "Swiss chards" which has a similiar taste and texture, and sounds better, but chards are more mangoldish. I'd stick with kale or curly kale, which makes it soemwhat "cuter"

08:09 Aug 31, 2011 

native speakers don't seem to get the point: we are talking about a text recounting the importance of a specific meal in Germany - kale in the UK is kale, sure, but Grünkohl in Germany is so much more!

08:06 Aug 31, 2011 

Kale seems to be the overriding translation here, given the answers already posted. However, as this text is trying to "sell" the idea of Grünkohl, I don't want English-speaking readers to think of cattle fodder when they read it! Curly kale had also crossed my mind, but this is referred to in a separate section, so I had ruled that out. I hadn't actually considered leaving it in German until now, because I don't believe anyone who doesn't speak German would know what a "Kohl" is in quite the same way as "Kraut" is understood the world over.

08:02 Aug 31, 2011 

Here's some pictures, which may help. GRünkohl is "kale" and only kale for general reading audiences:
http://www.google.de/search?q=different kinds of kale&hl=de&...

07:52 Aug 31, 2011 

I agree: it's usually "curly kale" on menus.

07:52 Aug 31, 2011 

Curly kale is just one type of kale. However, any "Grünkohl" I've ever seen in greengrocers in Germany has been curly.

07:43 Aug 31, 2011 

...is better known in UK, I think, as cattle fodder. My Uncle Leslie grew it at Church Farm, Ripe. But on menus it seems to be most often entered as 'curly kale', as in this Brighton (Hove) pub with aged beef rump: http://www.connaughtpub.co.uk/the-connaught/menu-2