Dec 29, 2021 10:23
2 yrs ago
52 viewers *
English term
Noun + numeral
English
Tech/Engineering
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Construction / Civil Engineering Oil / gas / nuclear
I was just wondering. Let's say we have a refinery / gas / nuclear plant with a number of buildings / equipment items, each with its own tag number. What would be the best way to write each of their names: "the 0X1A building" or "Building OX1A" or "building OX1A"?
Responses
| 4 | capped, no article |
danya
|
| 4 +9 | building OX1A |
Jennifer Levey
|
References
| What The Oxford Guide To Style Says |
danya
|
Change log
Dec 29, 2021 12:09: writeaway changed "Field (write-in)" from "Oil / gas / nuclear" to "Construction / Civil Engineering Oil / gas / nuclear"
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:
Non-PRO (1): Neil Ashby
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Responses
1 day 9 hrs
Selected
capped, no article
If something has a unique number that identifies it, it becomes akin to a proper noun, I guess (pls see my reference, too)
Note from asker:
| Noun + alphanumeric code IS a proper name/noun: https://writingexplained.org/grammar-dictionary/cardinal-ordinal-numbers Proper Names, Proper Nouns Proper names and proper nouns can use a figure instead of the fully written word. Examples: Let’s take Highway 1. The fastest route to Washington is Interstate 5. |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+9
54 mins
Jennifer Levey
Chile
Chile
Native in English
&
English
Chile
Human-scale Globalization
Native in: English (Variant: British) 
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English, English to Spanish, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
27
building OX1A
general identifier first, followed by the specific identifier.
So, for example: building OX1A, reactor 3, air pump 2 to identify a specific air pump.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2021-12-29 15:58:05 GMT)
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@Asker: The words should only be capitalized if they are proper nouns. In your question, and in the example I gave, there are no proper nouns, so no upper-case.
What makes the references unique/concrete/specific is only the alphanumerical code that follows the general category.
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Note added at 4 days (2022-01-03 01:21:48 GMT)
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@Asker and others: It is important to distinguish between the rules of English grammar, on the one hand, and the dictates of so-called 'style guides', on the other. If no specific style guide has been identified as being applicable to a given text, then the basic rules of English grammar must be applied blindly. If an author or publisher (or, indeed, a translator...) wishes to deviate from those rules of English grammar, for whatever reason, then said author or publisher (or, indeed, translator...) must assume the associated risks (such as incurring the wrath of those of us who spent countless hours learning the rules of English grammar in English grammar schools over half a century ago).
@Asker: How about the names of the English kings/queens. For instance, Richard III. Can the proper name/noun take a cardinal/alphanumerical code?
Yes, of course a proper noun can be complemented with an alphanumeric code. But that does not mean that every noun that is complemented with an alphanumeric code is necessarily a proper noun. Remember: all dogs are mammals - but not all mammals are dogs.
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Note added at 7 days (2022-01-05 11:03:16 GMT)
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@Asker Why don't you delete your answer completely since your actual work experience is not related to industrial plants, as you have no idea what the Tag Number at an industrial plant is?
I might perhaps consider deleting my answer, but only in the very unlikely event that all the eight well-qualified colleagues who have agreed with me change their 'Agree' to 'Disagree'.
As for my 'actual work experience' (about which you clearly know very little) I would point out that as an engineer with numerous years of hands-on experience of the installation and operation of industrial plant (high-power broadcast transmitters, TV and radio studios, etc.), and even more years spent translating, writing and publishing about such systems (including the editing and publication of international standards), it is actually rather likely that I do know how individual items in complex plant are identified.
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Note added at 8 days (2022-01-06 11:01:36 GMT)
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@Asker You clearly have no experience in oil / gas / neclear. See my initial question and its field. Your telecommunications experience is irrelevant. There can be lots of cables of the same type, but there cannot be two compressors with the same tag number at a refinery, gas processing plant or nuclear plant. Do you really believe that a control or safety system would be designed to send a signal to two pieces of equipment with the same tag number? Do you believe that a manufacturer would make two compressors with the same tag number at their own cost? You'd better delete your answer as your work experience is not relevant to the field of my question, you do not have relevant experience in oil / gas / nuclear, and you have no clue what the tag number is at a refinery, gas processing plant or a nuclear plant.
Do you really believe that the oil/gas/nuclear industries are the only ones that use tag numbers (or equivalent schemes) to uniquely identify system components? Let me assure you there are dozens, hundreds probably, of industries that serve as good examples of how it's done - and how relevant information is expressed in supporting documentation.
So, for example: building OX1A, reactor 3, air pump 2 to identify a specific air pump.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2021-12-29 15:58:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
@Asker: The words should only be capitalized if they are proper nouns. In your question, and in the example I gave, there are no proper nouns, so no upper-case.
What makes the references unique/concrete/specific is only the alphanumerical code that follows the general category.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2022-01-03 01:21:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
@Asker and others: It is important to distinguish between the rules of English grammar, on the one hand, and the dictates of so-called 'style guides', on the other. If no specific style guide has been identified as being applicable to a given text, then the basic rules of English grammar must be applied blindly. If an author or publisher (or, indeed, a translator...) wishes to deviate from those rules of English grammar, for whatever reason, then said author or publisher (or, indeed, translator...) must assume the associated risks (such as incurring the wrath of those of us who spent countless hours learning the rules of English grammar in English grammar schools over half a century ago).
@Asker: How about the names of the English kings/queens. For instance, Richard III. Can the proper name/noun take a cardinal/alphanumerical code?
Yes, of course a proper noun can be complemented with an alphanumeric code. But that does not mean that every noun that is complemented with an alphanumeric code is necessarily a proper noun. Remember: all dogs are mammals - but not all mammals are dogs.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 days (2022-01-05 11:03:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
@Asker Why don't you delete your answer completely since your actual work experience is not related to industrial plants, as you have no idea what the Tag Number at an industrial plant is?
I might perhaps consider deleting my answer, but only in the very unlikely event that all the eight well-qualified colleagues who have agreed with me change their 'Agree' to 'Disagree'.
As for my 'actual work experience' (about which you clearly know very little) I would point out that as an engineer with numerous years of hands-on experience of the installation and operation of industrial plant (high-power broadcast transmitters, TV and radio studios, etc.), and even more years spent translating, writing and publishing about such systems (including the editing and publication of international standards), it is actually rather likely that I do know how individual items in complex plant are identified.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 days (2022-01-06 11:01:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
@Asker You clearly have no experience in oil / gas / neclear. See my initial question and its field. Your telecommunications experience is irrelevant. There can be lots of cables of the same type, but there cannot be two compressors with the same tag number at a refinery, gas processing plant or nuclear plant. Do you really believe that a control or safety system would be designed to send a signal to two pieces of equipment with the same tag number? Do you believe that a manufacturer would make two compressors with the same tag number at their own cost? You'd better delete your answer as your work experience is not relevant to the field of my question, you do not have relevant experience in oil / gas / nuclear, and you have no clue what the tag number is at a refinery, gas processing plant or a nuclear plant.
Do you really believe that the oil/gas/nuclear industries are the only ones that use tag numbers (or equivalent schemes) to uniquely identify system components? Let me assure you there are dozens, hundreds probably, of industries that serve as good examples of how it's done - and how relevant information is expressed in supporting documentation.
Note from asker:
| How about capitalizing: Building OX1A, Reactor 3, Air Pump 2, since they are specific/concrete/unique ones? |
| My grammar books may be wrong, but they say that adding a numeral to a noun turns the whole thing into a proper name, since it has now become unique. Why would you otherwise capitalize Appendix 1, Exhibt A, Table 2, P.O. Box 3324, Section 2.3, Amendmen 5, Low-Temp CS Grade 5, SS Pressure Vessel K-R1, etc.? |
| https://centralfabricators.com/pressure-vessels/ |
| https://www.swecofab.com/products/asme-misc-fabrication/pressure-vessels-storage-tanks/ Sweco Fab can fabricate pressure vessels made out of Carbon Steel (including Low Temp CS A350 LF2), Stainless Steel (304/L or 316/L) and Cr-Mo Grade 5 (A387 Grade 5). The sizes ranges from 6″ OD to 110″ OD with vessel thickness up to 2″ thick. |
| https://writingexplained.org/grammar-dictionary/cardinal-ordinal-numbers Proper Names, Proper Nouns Proper names and proper nouns can use a figure instead of the fully written word. Examples: Let’s take Highway 1. The fastest route to Washington is Interstate 5. So, isn't it the rule to capitalize a proper noun consisting of noun + cardinal, since the whole thing is a proper noun? |
| Noun + cardinal refers to a specific object. It cannot be plural. So, it meets all the requirements of the proper noun. Hence, it should be capitalized, I think. |
| https://www.gingersoftware.com/content/grammar-rules/nouns/proper-noun/ "Proper nouns have two distinct features: They name specific one-of-a-kind items, and they begin with capital letters, no matter where they occur within a sentence." |
| How about the names of the English kings/queens. For instance, Richard III. Can the proper name/noun take a cardinal/alphanumerical code? |
| So, do you mean to say that a century ago they never heard of this English rule: https://writingexplained.org/grammar-dictionary/cardinal-ordinal-numbers Proper Names, Proper Nouns Proper names and proper nouns can use a figure instead of the fully written word. Examples: Let’s take Highway 1. The fastest route to Washington is Interstate 5. Or this from Greenbaum, Sidney - The Oxford English Grammar (Very Advanced), Page 110 in a pdf file: 4.4 Proper nouns. Proper nouns name specific people, animals, institutions, places, times, etc. They have unique reference, and in writing they begin with a capital letter. Names may consist of a combination of a proper noun with other words (adjectives, common nouns, prepositional phrases), and it is usual for the initial letters of each open-class word in the name to be written in capitals, and also the definite article the if it is part of the name... At any plant, the Tag Number makes any building or piece of equipment unique. There cannot be two building or pieces of equipment (pumps, compressors, turbines) with the same tag number at a plant. So, how can noun (building, piece of equipment) + Tag Number (unique one) fall under the general category? Those items of equipment have to be manufactured. Their names + tag numbers pass from design to manufacture to site installation. Their unique names + tag numbers are used in the control and safety systems. The Tag Number is intended for identifying buildings and pieces of equipment uniquely for the said reasons. |
| Why don't you delete your answer completely since your actual work experience is not related to industrial plants, as you have no idea what the Tag Number at an industrial plant is? |
| You clearly have no experience in oil / gas / neclear. See my initial question and its field. Your telecommunications experience is irrelevant. There can be lots of cables of the same type, but there cannot be two compressors with the same tag number at a refinery, gas processing plant or nuclear plant. Do you really believe that a control or safety system would be designed to send a signal to two pieces of equipment with the same tag number? Do you believe that a manufacturer would make two compressors with the same tag number at their own cost? You'd better delete your answer as your work experience is not relevant to the field of my question, you do not have relevant experience in oil / gas / nuclear, and you have no clue what the tag number is at a refinery, gas processing plant or a nuclear plant. |
| Oil/ gas/ nuclear is the specific field of my initial question (see above). Hence, your answers are irrelevant as well as your hysteria without concrete examples or references. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tony M
56 mins
|
| agree |
Bashiqa
: I see that "retirement" does not mean "hibernation". Happy New Year
1 hr
|
|
Zzzz...
|
|
| agree |
Mark Robertson
1 hr
|
| agree |
Tina Vonhof (X)
: I would go with capitals.
4 hrs
|
| agree |
AllegroTrans
5 hrs
|
| agree |
philgoddard
: I'm glad someone still knows the difference between common and proper nouns :-)
5 hrs
|
| agree |
Kiet Bach
: No, no capitalizing.
7 hrs
|
| agree |
Anastasia Kalantzi
3 days 18 hrs
|
| agree |
Badri Seyed Jalali
8 days
|
Reference comments
1 day 9 hrs
Reference:
What The Oxford Guide To Style Says
I believe the asker's case, broadly interpreted, falls under this rule.
Note from asker:
| Thanks. Exactly the same in Bonk, Part 1, Page 533, Paragraph 15. Sorry, I can't figure out how to insert a snapshot of it here. |
Discussion