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This question was closed without grading. Reason: Answer found elsewhere
Dutch to English translations [PRO] Medical - Other / acc. to the source text, a form of allergy related to bakery workers
Dutch term or phrase:grondstofallergie
Loopneus, niezen, droge huid, eczeem, hevige jeuk, kortademigheid, chronisch hoesten… Allemaal verschijnselen die te maken kunnen hebben met grondstofallergie. Grondstofallergie is een sluipend proces dat kan ontstaan door werken met meel.
Werkgevers- en werknemersorganisaties van de bakkerijsector hebben afspraken gemaakt over het voorkomen van grondstofallergie
I think Mr vanZadelhoff made his last comment. My final remark is grondstofallergie has indeed a definition and it is probably baker's allergy (although the definitions of baker's allergy that I've seen so far do not completely overlap with the definition of grondstofallergy and I find it risky to speculate that they're one and the same, misleading internet users, about an industry that is unfamiliar to me). The translation that I picked 'flour allergy' was wrong. It is OK for me to leave it like this. Since Mr Van Zadelhoff is also not interested in points on this, possible visitors may read the discussion and make their own decision. Thanks and once apologies for the awkward handling.
"It is generic in the sense that nobody outside the bakery industry will understand that it specifically signifies a concept that is only related to bakeries. And I strongly doubt that this was intention when they coined the word."
All this is just speculation and irrelevant. All that matters is the definition, which I had to accept, no doubt about what this says and implies.
I am not at all interested in points with respect to this question. You just blew my mind by bluntly ignoring, so it would seem, writeaway's and my contributions rather than gratefully accepting them or at least give an explanation for closing the question without grading. Thereby also implying you knew better. Meanwhile I was completely sure about the usefulness of our answers. Can you understand my amazement? Your replies in our current discussion tended to add to this amazement. I needed to be sharp. I don't understand the remark about referrals to your racial background.
As far as your last reply is concerned I tried to explain but apparently it doesn't satisfy you. It does satisfy me.
Let's agree on something: grondstofallergie is related to bakeries and probably only to bakeries. But still I am hesitant to claim a hundred percent overlap between those two terms. It is generic in the sense that nobody outside the bakery industry will understand that it specifically signifies a concept that is only related to bakeries. And I strongly doubt that this was intention when they coined the word. Why didn't they simply call it bakkersallergie? It is after all according to you the only allergy that is possible in the bakery and the bakery is the only place that you can experience it, right?
First of all I'm very grateful to van Zadelhoff's meticuluousness, correct translation is a matter of life and death for us. Secondly I am still prepared to request the moderator to re-open the question so that I can choose and grade him, since van Zadelhoff answered most of questions. But I will ask one more question in another entry. I enjoy this discussion and I don't care much about the remarks the client being a deceitful idiot, me being his conscious accomplice, a barbarian who hasn't even heard of localization and referrals to my racial background. I just won't answer. You'll probably be talking to yourself.
translating between 2 foreign languages. I assumed Asker was working into Turkish but couldn't find help so used English instead. By translating between 2 foreign languages, a translator becomes a vulnerable target for those trying to put their own ideas across. I may think a certain Dutch term is fine but I wouldn't be able to ignore the opinion of a native Dutch speaker who sounded very sure. Here both source and target languages are foreign, which complicates matters even more.
'flour allergy' misses in at least two ways the context of your question: it misses the aspect of this specific allergy occurring in the bakery sector. In the English speaking countries called: baker's allergy. Or: occupational respiratory allergy in bakery, etc.
1) - Your question is about the specific definition below, that is, it refers to an allergy that occurs among people working in the bakery sector -->:
question: Grondstofallergie is een sluipend proces dat kan ontstaan door werken met meel.
2) Your question is about an allergy occuring among people working in the bakery sector -->:
question: Werkgevers- en werknemersorganisaties van de bakkerijsector hebben afspraken gemaakt over het voorkomen van grondstofallergie
Why reject a translation that is obviously right and specific in this context and replace it by a less specific, less obvious, non-standard term?
Baker's allergy includes all specific 'grondstoffen' that people working in the bakery sector may become allergic to.
'imply' a very specific concept with a generic term (grondstofallergie) instead of pinpointing it precisely (bakkersallergie)
First. The concept is not so generic as it sounds, which initially put me on the 'wrong' track. The definition is:
Grondstofallergie is een sluipend proces dat kan ontstaan door werken met meel en enzymen. Het kan worden opgebouwd tijdens het werken met meelstof. Uiteindelijk kan deze allergie leiden tot astma. Hoe minder werknemers worden blootgesteld aan meel, hoe kleiner de kans op grondstofallergie. Het is dus belangrijk om stof in de omgeving zo veel mogelijk te voorkomen. Op de website blijmetstofvrij staan diverse tips om ‘stofarm’ te werken.
Much more specific than it sounds: working with just 'meel' and 'enzymen'. Of course 'meelstof' gets in the air when you work with 'meel' and is going to be inhaled.
These same 'grondstoffen' will be inhaled by people working in the bakery sector anywhere in the world.
Here, in this country, they opted for the apparent generic concept of 'grondstofallergie' and in the English-speaking countries for the apparant specific concept of baker's allergy.
Before I answer your question I will ask you a question. It seems to me really odd that your client doesn't even understand what 'grondstofallergie' means:
This guy tried to deceive you into thinking that 'grondstofallergie' means 'allergie voor stof op de grond' -->:
'Allergie voor stof op de grond' was indeed an explanation that I received from the client
and apparentely you seemed to buy it -->:
Je moet overigens het woord ‘grondstofallergie’ interpreteren als ‘een allergie voor stof op de grond’.
How can such a client be of any help? But how is it possible that he has such an interpretation?
I guess you didn't read my answer, because it was too long. I'll summarize it for you. Ground dust allergy (wrongfully recalled as ground substance allergy) was an option that I considered, but never used. I used 'flour allergy',it may be wrong but this is the one I used. I still don't understand why a Dutch person would choose to 'imply' a very specific concept with a generic term (grondstofallergie) instead of pinpointing it precisely (bakkersallergie), while it is very easy to do so. Do you have an answer for that?
And what is 'allergy for ground dust' supposed to mean?
What ground dust? I believe you find ground dust everywhere around the globe. However, only people working in the bakery sector have a problem with it. :-)
Again, English speaking people would like to understand what you are talking about. Our issue is an allergy pertaining to people working in the bakery sector. In the Netherlands they call it 'grondstofallergie', in English-speaking countries they call it baker's allergy.
People working in the bakery sector in Britain, the US, you name it, are exposed the same 'dust' as their colleagues are in the Netherlands.
Again 'ground dust allergy' makes no sense whatsoever, you keep looking for literal translations where none of them is going to work.
Also, even in the context of wheat allergy you are looking for a more literal term. However, this is all included in wheat allergy.
Baker's allergy has a ω-gliadin component and thioredoxin hB component. In addition, a gluten-extrinsic allergen has been identified as aspergillus amylase, added to flour to increase its baking properties.
Grondstofallergie is een sluipend proces dat kan ontstaan door werken met meel en enzymen. Het kan worden opgebouwd tijdens het werken met meelstof. Hoe minder u wordt blootgesteld aan meel, hoe kleiner de kans op grondstofallergie. Het is dus belangrijk om stof in de omgeving zo veel mogelijk te voorkomen.
Soms zijn daarvoor technische aanpassingen nodig. Soms biedt de keuze voor een ander soort grondstof een mogelijkheid. Maar net zo vaak is het een kwestie van net even anders en vooral bewust omgaan met meel en enzymen. Bijvoorbeeld nat reinigen en stofzuigen in plaats van vegen en blazen of aardappelmeel, rijststrooimeel of olie gebruiken in plaats van strooibloem. Maatregelen die niets kosten, maar veel opleveren. Gewoon even beter nadenken en gedisciplineerder werken.
In het Handboek stofbeheersing zijn veel maatregelen te vinden die u helpen bij het verminderen van de hoeveelheid meelstof in de omgeving.
After some digging I found what exactly happened. 'Allergie voor stof op de grond' was indeed an explanation that I received from the client, but I didn't use it. I used 'flour allergy' (and not wheat allergy, which is what I have and I'm not a baker!) which was also a suggestion of the client. Here is his answer: Vertaal ‘grondstofallergie’ maar als ‘meelstofallergie’ zoals [andere vertaler] dat deed. Je moet overigens het woord ‘grondstofallergie’ interpreteren als ‘een allergie voor stof op de grond’. Your suggestion of 'Baker's allergy' makes in so many ways sense, but the question remains why it is not bakkersallergie in the Dutch tekst instead of grondstofallergie. Why would someone choose to imply a concept (grondstofallergie) instead of pinpointing it (bakkersallergie). Besides you say in your answer 'in my opinion' which made me think that you were not completely sure. I am really grateful for your efforts, must have been very tedious, given the time of night. Finally I left some of your questions unanswered because I consider them as an attempt to personalize a linguistic discussion and I will continue doing that.
2) No English person will understand what you are talking about.
3) You got the best information you could get.
Since when are we going to accept translations from people who come up with a translation that the avarage man in the street would come up with, an inaccurate 'literal' translation, and don't know the first thing about medical issues?
Apart from this, even if you used this linguistic monster, you should of course have credited what you opted for, that is 'baker's allergy'.
Why reject something that you know that is right because this idiot forced you to use 'ground substance allergy'?
I used 'baker's allergy', the client said 'ground substance allergy' would be a better translation and that they also don't have an exact translation. It seems to be a regulation related word that only exists in the Netherlands.
Of course 'Baker's allergy' is a form of occupational allergy, it's just that it's more specific.
Problems in diagnosing occupational allergy to flour: results of allergologic screening in apprentice bakers.
Baker's respiratory allergy is reported as one of the most common forms of occupational allergy in many countries. At the first stage of a three-year study of risk factors of occupational allergy we investigated the symptoms reported, and the results of skin prick tests (SPT) to common and flour allergens in 461 current apprentice bakers from three different regions of Poland before starting occupational exposure.
It then occurs that you could use either 'wheat allergy' or 'baker's allergy'
Sometimes called “baker’s allergy”, wheat allergy may be exacerbated by exercising or taking aspirin, causing a very violent and dangerous- even life-threatening- allergic condition called anaphylaxis -
Baker's allergy has a ω-gliadin component and thioredoxin hB component.[21] In addition, a gluten-extrinsic allergen has been identified as aspergillus amylase, added to flour to increase its baking properties
My assumption was that 'grondstofallergie' pertained to all kinds of economic sectors, as 'grondstoffen' are used in all kinds of economic sectors. This, however, turns out not to be the case. It would seem that it pertains exclusively to the 'grondstoffen' used in the bakery sector.
Grondstofallergie
Grondstofallergie is een sluipend proces dat kan ontstaan door werken met meel en enzymen. Het kan worden opgebouwd tijdens het werken met meelstof. Uiteindelijk kan deze allergie leiden tot astma. Hoe minder werknemers worden blootgesteld aan meel, hoe kleiner de kans op grondstofallergie. Het is dus belangrijk om stof in de omgeving zo veel mogelijk te voorkomen. Op de website blijmetstofvrij staan diverse tips om ‘stofarm’ te werken.
Explanation: Ik denk dat een letterlijke vertaling niet werkt. In de definitie van 'occupational allergy' ligt allergie voor een grondstof op de werkplek besloten
Occupational allergy is defined as allergy caused by exposure to a product that is present in the workplace. Both elements of this definition are important, as the agent should be specific to the workplace and be causally related to the disease.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 39 mins (2014-05-06 01:53:35 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
same document:
In this thesis, results are presented of a cross-sectional epidemiological study among a few hundred bakery workers. Main focus was on the relationship between allergen exposure and the development of specific sensitization and respiratory allergy. Immunoassays were developed for measuring airborne allergens from wheat flour and fungal a-amylase, an enzymatic dough improver. A total of 571 personal inhalable dust samples were available from 230 workers. Wheat flour allergens were measured in 449 of these samples with an inhibition enzyme immuno assay, and an anti-wheat IgG4 serum pool from bakery workers. Fungal a-amylase allergens were measured in 507 samples in a sandwich immunoassay, using affinity purified polyclonal rabbit IgG antibodies. The validity and specificity of both assays were extensively tested.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2014-05-06 02:28:11 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
From the first reference, some nice information.
The recognition of occupational allergy goes back to Olaus Magnus who, in 1555, wrote:
When sifting the chaff from the wheat, one must carefully consider the time when a suitable wind is available that sweeps away the harmful dust. This fine-grained material readily makes its way into the mouth, congests in the throat, and threatens the life organs of the threshing men. If one does not seek instant remedy by drinking one's beer, one may never more, or only for a short time, be able to enjoy what one has threshed.
Explanation: it's not literal but imo this is what is used in English for this specific allergy in this specific context.
Baker's asthma occurs because of an allergy to various types of flour-including wheat flour. It is named baker's asthma because it is especially a problem for bakers. The reaction is caused when an individual inhales the flour instead of consuming it. It results in troubled breathing. This reaction may or may not be part of a person's larger wheat allergy. http://www.sharecare.com/health/food-allergies-intolerance/h...
Baker's allergy Baker's asthma is a frequent occupational allergic disease caused mainly by inhalation of ... between baker's asthma, wheat-induced food allergy, and grass. http://www.jiaci.org/issues/vol21issue2/1.pdf Can a wheat allergy cause breathing problems? - Health health.howstuffworks.com/.../allergies/...allergy/.../wheat... HowStuffWorks A common symptom of wheat allergies is difficulty breathing. ... Meanwhile, baker's asthma is an allergy triggered by people who breathe in wheat flour; http://health.howstuffworks.com/diseases-conditions/allergie...
Baker's allergy has a ω-gliadin component and thioredoxin hB component. In addition, a gluten-extrinsic allergen has been identified as aspergillus amylase, added to flour to increase its baking properties. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_allergy#Baker.27s_allergy
writeaway Works in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 30
peer agreement (net): +1
