This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
Jul 4, 2010 18:17
13 yrs ago
Dutch term
United Kingdom
Experienced technical/patent translator
Native in: English (Variants: British, US) 
Works in: Dutch to English, Flemish to English, English to Dutch, and 2 more.
cultusplaats
Dutch to English
Art/Literary
History
'Kerkhoven en cultusplaats kregen een belangrijke, zij het wisselende plaats in de gemeenschap.'
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | cult location |
Lianne van de Ven
|
| 3 | place for religious contemplation |
Barend van Zadelhoff
|
References
| actual context |
writeaway
|
Proposed translations
+2
26 mins
Lianne van de Ven
United States
United States
Native in Dutch
United States
Experienced, reliable, detail-oriented
Native in: Dutch
Works in: English to Dutch, Dutch to English
Related KudoZ points
:
20
cult location
One example:
At one point, for example, wandering around in the dark cult location and faced with the possibility of the living dead, he remarks, "This is f…ing weird!" and we agree.
http://metapsychology.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=b...
At one point, for example, wandering around in the dark cult location and faced with the possibility of the living dead, he remarks, "This is f…ing weird!" and we agree.
http://metapsychology.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=b...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Textpertise
: see also http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&q="cult location" societal im...
16 mins
|
|
thank you
|
|
| agree |
Verginia Ophof
23 mins
|
|
thank you
|
2 hrs
Barend van Zadelhoff
Netherlands
Netherlands
Native in Dutch
Netherlands
TR is the most intimate act of reading.
Native in: Dutch
Works in: English to Dutch, Dutch to English, Dutch
Related KudoZ points
:
17
place for religious contemplation
Churchyards, both in the physical sense and in the sense of serving as a place for religious contemplation, acquired an important, although changing, place within the community.
in this particular context "cultusplaats" only makes sense to me when it is understood in connection with "kerkhoven"
I believe the speaker/ writer refers to two aspects of the same place, namely:
the physical aspect: the way the churchyards were set up, the types of graves you could find there, maintenance, in short, the effort invested in their appearance
the spiritual aspect: the churchyard as a place for the living to deal with death and the death
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Note added at 3 hrs (2010-07-04 22:04:54 GMT)
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as I pointed out, I believe it is about the place churchyards acquired in a religious sense, that's my personal take on it
remember that places of worship, churches, The Church, were at the summit of their power in the Middle Ages, they held a more than important place already!
perhaps you could replace "contemplation" with "acts" or "rituals", I don't know what is best
we can be sure that it is about Christian religious practices, but you had many kinds of Christians in the Middle Ages
just read The Name of the Rose :-)
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Note added at 4 hrs (2010-07-04 22:19:53 GMT)
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".. serving as a place" should be "serving as places"
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Note added at 4 hrs (2010-07-04 22:42:46 GMT)
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it is true that you can read "kregen" also as "were given" and not as "acquired" but this would not change my opinion, I would still believe the speaker/ writer is referring to churchyards as "cultusplaatsen"
they would gather around those mausoleums and monuments to do their religious thing, everyone in his own way
in this particular context "cultusplaats" only makes sense to me when it is understood in connection with "kerkhoven"
I believe the speaker/ writer refers to two aspects of the same place, namely:
the physical aspect: the way the churchyards were set up, the types of graves you could find there, maintenance, in short, the effort invested in their appearance
the spiritual aspect: the churchyard as a place for the living to deal with death and the death
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2010-07-04 22:04:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
as I pointed out, I believe it is about the place churchyards acquired in a religious sense, that's my personal take on it
remember that places of worship, churches, The Church, were at the summit of their power in the Middle Ages, they held a more than important place already!
perhaps you could replace "contemplation" with "acts" or "rituals", I don't know what is best
we can be sure that it is about Christian religious practices, but you had many kinds of Christians in the Middle Ages
just read The Name of the Rose :-)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2010-07-04 22:19:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
".. serving as a place" should be "serving as places"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2010-07-04 22:42:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
it is true that you can read "kregen" also as "were given" and not as "acquired" but this would not change my opinion, I would still believe the speaker/ writer is referring to churchyards as "cultusplaatsen"
they would gather around those mausoleums and monuments to do their religious thing, everyone in his own way
Note from asker:
| Thanks Barend! I am kind of leaning towards the following: 'Cemeteries and places of worship acquired an important although changing place within the community.' (The next sentence reads: 'Praalgraven en grafmonumenten contrasteerden met de gewone graven en de massagraven.') |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Frank van Thienen (X)
: I agree with this; from Van Dale: cultus=worship
1 hr
|
|
Thank you, Frank. IMO it is primarily about making sense of this strange utterance. What is the speaker/writer referring to with "cultusplaats"?
|
|
| disagree |
Lianne van de Ven
: Irrespective of your other comments, contemplation is unrelated to worshipping: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemplation
6 hrs
|
|
Well, I wrote above "you could also choose religious acts, or rituals or still something else". But the primary question is what is meant by this "cultusplaats". I believe, as you must have read, it's the churchyards.
|
Reference comments
1 hr
Reference:
actual context
TUSSEN HEMEL EN HEL
Sterven in de middeleeuwen
Data: 03/12/10 - 24/04/11
Locatie: Jubelparkmuseum
3) De topografie van de dood - Achter elk graf gaat een man, een vrouw, een kind of een gemeenschap schuil. Kerkhoven en cultusplaats kregen een belangrijke, zij het wisselende plaats in de gemeenschap. Praalgraven en grafmonumenten contrasteerden met de gewone graven en de massagraven.
http://www.kmkg-mrah.be/newnl/index.asp?id=2258
Sterven in de middeleeuwen
Data: 03/12/10 - 24/04/11
Locatie: Jubelparkmuseum
3) De topografie van de dood - Achter elk graf gaat een man, een vrouw, een kind of een gemeenschap schuil. Kerkhoven en cultusplaats kregen een belangrijke, zij het wisselende plaats in de gemeenschap. Praalgraven en grafmonumenten contrasteerden met de gewone graven en de massagraven.
http://www.kmkg-mrah.be/newnl/index.asp?id=2258
Discussion
IMO when the writer uses the word "kerkhoven" he refers to what people used to invest in their physical appearance and when he uses the word "cultusplaats" he refers to these same "kerkhoven" but now in terms of the amount of time people used to spend there for performing certain religious activities
First sentence:
"Achter elk graf gaat een man, een vrouw, een kind of een gemeenschap schuil."
we could clearly be talking about a churchyard (kerkhof), couldn't we?
but couldn't we also be talking about a "cultusplaats"? A place where it is possible for visitors to perform religious acts related or unrelated to this man, this woman, this child, this community buried there?
So the next sentence continues:
Kerkhoven en cultusplaats kregen een belangrijke plaats in de gemeenschap.
They took care of their physical state and they spent religious time there
There is no reference to any kind of "cult" as we understand these days, so just church or place of worship will suffice. Unless Michael has some other context that changes things, I read this very simply as a reference to a church of any size or denomination, and his own conclusion sounds logical to me.
'Kerkhoven en cultusplaats kregen een belangrijke, zij het wisselende plaats in de gemeenschap.' -> 'Cemeteries and places of worship had an important, albeit changing place in the community.'