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Glossary entry

Dutch term or phrase:

noordboom pan(nen)

English translation:

hip cap(ping); hip tiles

Added to glossary by Michael Beijer
Oct 17, 2016 17:27
7 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Dutch term

noordboom

Dutch to English Tech/Engineering Construction / Civil Engineering
"Een noordboom is een soort dakpan voor de afwerking van de aansluiting van twee schuine dakvlakken."

Any ideas?
Any references?
TIA
Proposed translations (English)
3 hip cap(ping); hip tiles
References
refs
Change log

Oct 18, 2016 19:15: Michael Beijer changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/13646">Alexander Schleber (X)'s</a> old entry - "noordboom"" to ""hip cap / ridge cap""

Discussion

Michael Beijer Oct 18, 2016:
20 Questions RvdH = Roy vd Heijden. Thanks for offering me zero help understanding your cryptic nonsense.

Speaking of specialisation, who's to say you're in any way qualified to say anything about this stuff? You provide no information about yourself, hide behind a silly name, and tell us you are a member of the:

• BNA (Royal Institute of Dutch Architects)
• BNO (Royal Institute of Dutch Designers)
• KIVI (Royal Institute of Engineers)

Hmm, interesting, but what does that actually mean? Do you have some kind of degree or actual work experience in architecture/construction/engineering?

You also say that you have "[…] DONE Architecture at Delft University of Technology (only at the Faculty of Architecture you do not study but you do DO) and Industrial Design at HIAP, Antwerp, Belgium." But what does that mean? Did you graduate from either of these places? I remember you once said that you don't translate full-time. But what do you do then?

Care to enlighten us?
Michael Beijer Oct 18, 2016:
@freek: Your comment below doesn't make any sense.

"disagree freekfluweel: Please, enlighten me what 'noordboom' is in relation to 'nok'... they're the same? But then again, you're specialized in architecture... btw RvdH claims to be not... or better still: claims to be speciliazed in nothing at all, whatsoever...!"

No, they're not the same. See above/below.
Michael Beijer Oct 18, 2016:
and in: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://www.centralexte...

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://www.carpentry-p...

However, since I am obviously not specialised in this field (in the sense of having hands-on experience), I might be (completely) wrong. Since you seem to be the specialist here (you once said you had studied a bit of architecture or built stuff; not sure if you are actually qualified in any meaningful way or have ever actually held a job as an architect/builder/engineer, etc.) you ought to know this stuff, right? Can you explain if any of our findings make any sense? I'm not trying to dazzle anyone. Just trying to help Alexander.
Michael Beijer Oct 18, 2016:
@freek: You asked me:

"Please, enlighten me what a '(1) noordboom' is in relation to '(2) nok'... But then again, you're specialized in architecture..."

I summarised what I managed to figure out from googling in my previous post ("Tot slot"), and in my answer, which I'll repeat here:

As far as I understand it, this ought to be correct:

(1) noordboom pan(nen) = hip cap(ping); hip tiles
(2) nokafdekking; nokpan(nen) = ridge capping; ridging; ridge tile(s)

and:

"hip and ridge" = "noordboom en nok" (more commonly known as "nok en nordboom")

(I think) what "hips" and "ridges" are in the real world can be seen in this image:

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.superior-tru...
Michael Beijer Oct 17, 2016:
Tot slot: I think that, technically speaking, a "noordboom" is a hip, but the author actually means "noordboom pan(nen)".

As far as I understand it, this ought to be correct:

1. noordboom pan(nen) = hip cap(ping); hip tiles
2. nokafdekking; nokpan(nen) = ridge capping; ridging; ridge tile(s)

and:

"hip and ridge" = "noordboom en nok" (more commonly known as "nok en nordboom")
Michael Beijer Oct 17, 2016:
some nice pictures showing the difference between a "ridge" and a "hip" (very clearly):

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://www.carpentry-p...

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://www.centralexte...

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.superior-tru...
Michael Beijer Oct 17, 2016:
hmm, there does seem to be a difference between a (roof) "ridge" and a (roof) "hip", but I don't entirely understand what it is. this seems to show each: https://www.google.com/search?q=difference between hip and r...

aha. this explains it nicely: http://www.roofingcalc.com/hip-roof-vs-gable-roof/ ("A hip roof has slopes on all four sides.", whereas a gable roof only on two)

apparently, there is even such a thing as a "Dutch Gable Roof":

"Dutch Gable Roof: A Dutch gable is a hybrid of a gable and hip roof. A gable roof is placed at the top of a hip roof for more space and enhanced aesthetic appeal."
Michael Beijer Oct 17, 2016:
@Alexander: I assume you are also aware of this Q.: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/dutch_to_english/construction_civi...

eindnoordboomstuk = hipped roof terminal tile
Michael Beijer Oct 17, 2016:
I think peaked roof planes meet at a ridge (line) ("De noordboom of nok is de plaats waar twee dakschilden elkaar aan de bovenzijde snijden." -wikipedia). But in Alexander's src text they seem to be using "noordboom" to refer to the tiles ("een soort dakpan") that cover the ridge. I think OGL's "nokafdekking = ridge capping" might be what we are looking for.

Roy's suggested "hip tile" also looks like a possibility.
philgoddard Oct 17, 2016:
I'm not sure they're the same, unless the two Dutch concepts have a single English translation. "Nok en nordboom" gets quite a few hits.
Roy vd Heijden Oct 17, 2016:
noordboom = hip tile?
(http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hip tile)
TDVTrans Oct 17, 2016:
noordboom = nok Perhaps this could help:
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schilddak

Proposed translations

1 hr
Dutch term (edited): noordboom pan(nen)
Selected

hip cap(ping); hip tiles

I think that, technically speaking, a "noordboom" is a hip, but the author actually means "noordboom pan(nen)".

As far as I understand it, this ought to be correct:

1. noordboom pan(nen) = hip cap(ping); hip tiles
2. nokafdekking; nokpan(nen) = ridge capping; ridging; ridge tile(s)

and:

"hip and ridge" = "noordboom en nok" (more commonly known as "nok en nordboom")
Peer comment(s):
agree Richard Purdom
18 hrs
thanks Richard!
disagree freekfluweel : Please, enlighten me what 'noordboom' is in relation to 'nok'... they're the same? But then again, you're specialized in architecture... btw RvdH claims to be not... or better still: claims to be speciliazed in nothing at all, whatsoever...!
1 day 1 hr
I just tried to enlighten you in the d.box. // btw, what exactly do you disagree with in my answer?
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks Michael for all the effort you put into references and your answer. I finally decided to go with "ridge cap"."

Reference comments

35 mins
Reference:

refs

"Een schilddak of schildkap is een daktype dat wordt gevormd door twee driehoekige schilden of dakvlakken aan de korte kant en twee trapeziumvormige schilden aan de lange kant van het gebouw.
Het schilddak werd voor het eerst in de jaren 30 op grote schaal toegepast. Het is een aangepast zadeldak. Door aan de korte kanten van het gebouw dakschilden aan te brengen ontstaat deze dakvorm. Door ruime overstekken, waarin meestal de dakgoot is opgenomen, te gebruiken kunnen "natte" muren voorkomen worden.

Het schilddak is een voorbeeld van een "noordboomdak". De noordboom of nok is de plaats waar twee dakschilden elkaar aan de bovenzijde snijden. Meestal hebben de vier dakvlakken dezelfde helling. Soms worden de uiteinden van een schilddak versierd met een piron."

(https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schilddak )

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 36 mins (2016-10-17 18:03:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Hans Mertens:
great idea and tread...

it 's going to get a little chaotic but what the heck.

some (Belgian)Dutch translation

roof:
Hip: noordboom that would translate back as "north tree"
Valley: kiel
The central upstanding part in a full truss: priemstijl

stairs:
Run: sprong that would translate back as "jump"

windows:
Window sash: raam vleugel that would translate back as "window wing""

(http://festoolownersgroup.com/general-friendly-chat/consolid... )

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 37 mins (2016-10-17 18:05:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schilddak links to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_roof

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2016-10-17 18:06:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


Onroerend Goed Lexicon:

nokafdekking = ridge capping
nok = ridge

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 56 mins (2016-10-17 18:23:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Jansonius, Dr. H.: (Nieuw) Groot Nederlands-Engels woordenboek voor studie en practijk (Numij, 1972):
nokafdekking = ridging

Van Dale NL>EN:
nokpan de (bouwkunst) = ridge-tile

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2016-10-17 18:27:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Wolters’ Handwoordenboek Nederland-Engels (20e druk, 1994) (77,000 headwords, 1,073 pp.):
nokpan = ridge tile

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2016-10-17 18:43:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Hip Cap (Noordboom pan)

De Hip Caps of Noordboom pannen zijn identiek aan de Ridge Caps. De onderstaande tabel
berekend de conversie voor de nokken op de noordbomen voor 2 snijdende hellingen waarbij
de hoek tussen de dakranden 90° graden is.

[…]

Het is belangrijk dat het onderdak regen- en winddicht afgewerkt is, zodat ingeblazen water,
stof en stuifsneeuw nooit onder het onderdak schade kunnen aanbrengen.
Zowel aan de vorst als aan de noordboom aansluitingen dient men de nodige maatregelen te
treffen. Alle overlappingen, opstanden en doorboringen perfect moeten afgewerkt worden.
Zorg er steeds voor dat eventuele naden dicht gekleefd worden. Bij soepele onderdaken kan
dit door de laatste strook ter hoogte van de vorst / noordboom van het ene dakvlak over te
plooien naar het andere dakvlak.

[…]

Bij een Noordboomdak worden eerst de hipcaps geplaatst en wordt er een ridgecap
overgeplaatst."

(http://docplayer.nl/6604010-Plaatsingsvoorschriften.html )

*****************************
"hip cap" seems to be the same thing as "ridge cap". see e.g. this photo:

https://www.google.com/search?q="hip cap" "ridge caps"&espv=...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2016-10-17 19:09:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Noordboom: bepaald type dakpan om de aansluiting van twee schuine dakvlakken af te werken."

(http://reliwiki.nl/index.php/Termenlijst_bouwkundig )
Peer comments on this reference comment:
disagree freekfluweel : noordboom that would translate back as "north tree"...? You mean 'north beam'... Anything can be googled... alas, it makes no sense if you don't know what to google for! Still trying to dazzle us with as many (irrelevant) refs you can find...?!
1 day 2 hrs
indeed, these things don't make much sense to people with no hands-on experience in architecture (at least initially), which is why we google er op los. what else can a translator do? quickly become an architect or a builder? obviously not
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