Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
non-valeurs
English translation:
nil-value assets
- The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2023-07-31 11:54:20 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)
Jul 28, 2023 07:04
10 mos ago
29 viewers *
French term
Legal & corporate communications
Native in: English (Variant: British) 
Works in: French to English
non-valeurs
French to English
Bus/Financial
Accounting
I'm translating a share purchase agreement in which the price is to be calculated according to the following formula:
P = (VCA + SN – VNC – NV – DPVL + PCTA – MA – PA)
The key defines NV as follows: "NV : désigne les Non-Valeurs de la Société"
I'm afraid I have no further context.
Various online accounting glossaries on French sites suggest that the translation "non-value [security/item]" exists in English, but it appears to be in much less common use than its French counterpart.
My Saxcé accounting dictionary suggests "worthless security".
Louis Ménard's Canadian accounting dictionary suggests it's another term for "deferred charges".
Is there anyone out there with a good understanding of accounting who could shed some light on the matter for me?
Thanks in advance for your contributions!
P = (VCA + SN – VNC – NV – DPVL + PCTA – MA – PA)
The key defines NV as follows: "NV : désigne les Non-Valeurs de la Société"
I'm afraid I have no further context.
Various online accounting glossaries on French sites suggest that the translation "non-value [security/item]" exists in English, but it appears to be in much less common use than its French counterpart.
My Saxcé accounting dictionary suggests "worthless security".
Louis Ménard's Canadian accounting dictionary suggests it's another term for "deferred charges".
Is there anyone out there with a good understanding of accounting who could shed some light on the matter for me?
Thanks in advance for your contributions!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 2 +2 | nil-value assets |
Rob Grayson
|
| 4 +2 | non-value |
Daryo
|
| 4 | invalid |
Lena Johansson
|
References
| What it's not |
Daryo
|
Proposed translations
+2
34 mins
Rob Grayson
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Related KudoZ points
:
156
Selected
nil-value assets
This is not a term I've come across before, hence the low confidence level.
After a bit of googling, I hit upon the term "immobilisations en non valeur", which turned up quite a few hits. Among these was a Kudoz question (see https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/accounting/3116... to which rkillings provided the answer "nil value assets".
Bob Killings is now retired and no longer active on proz. However, I knew him back when he was more active and can safely say he was one of the best financial translators I ever came across.
P.S. Is your text Moroccan, by any chance? Google throws up lots of Moroccan results. For example, see https://mihfada.com/blog/actifs-immobilises/#:~:text=Les imm...
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Note added at 36 mins (2023-07-28 07:40:53 GMT)
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From the last link in my answer above:
"Par ailleurs, les immobilisations en non-valeur représentent une différence majeure entre la comptabilité marocaine et la comptabilité internationale. Ainsi, par exemple, la norme IAS16 – Immobilisations corporelles interdit la comptabilisation de ce type d’immobilisations."
This probably explains why it's so difficult to pin down any kind of standard translation for this term – and why you probably shouldn't be too concerned about using something that's not widely attested.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2023-07-28 10:13:54 GMT)
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There seems to be an error in the first link in my answer. Here it is again: https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/accounting/3116...
After a bit of googling, I hit upon the term "immobilisations en non valeur", which turned up quite a few hits. Among these was a Kudoz question (see https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/accounting/3116... to which rkillings provided the answer "nil value assets".
Bob Killings is now retired and no longer active on proz. However, I knew him back when he was more active and can safely say he was one of the best financial translators I ever came across.
P.S. Is your text Moroccan, by any chance? Google throws up lots of Moroccan results. For example, see https://mihfada.com/blog/actifs-immobilises/#:~:text=Les imm...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 36 mins (2023-07-28 07:40:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
From the last link in my answer above:
"Par ailleurs, les immobilisations en non-valeur représentent une différence majeure entre la comptabilité marocaine et la comptabilité internationale. Ainsi, par exemple, la norme IAS16 – Immobilisations corporelles interdit la comptabilisation de ce type d’immobilisations."
This probably explains why it's so difficult to pin down any kind of standard translation for this term – and why you probably shouldn't be too concerned about using something that's not widely attested.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2023-07-28 10:13:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
There seems to be an error in the first link in my answer. Here it is again: https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/accounting/3116...
Note from asker:
| Thank you so much for you input on this! The SPA doesn't actually specify which jurisdiction is concerned (address details and parties' identities have been blanked out for confidentiality), so it could indeed be Moroccan. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
writeaway
2 hrs
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| agree |
Bourth
: Bob Killingsworth
4 hrs
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Yes, Killingsworth, my bad
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| agree |
philgoddard
: Your answer is better than Bob's because you've given references.
4 hrs
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| agree |
Conor McAuley
: Good job
6 hrs
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| disagree |
Daryo
: What would be the point of adding "the value of nil-value assets"??? Since when adding zero to a sum is going to make any difference? In actual facts, it's the opposite of "non-valeurs" see refs. //Fair enough, to your credit, you limited yourself to CL2.
9 hrs
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You'll notice I didn't claim high confidence. That said, there's clearly no standard accepted EN term here, so it seems a bit fruitless to argue the toss over whether "nil" or "non" is the "correct" translation. In either case, a TN may be warranted.
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| disagree |
Adrian MM.
: It's a pity you quote the threadbare and unreferenced answer of rkillings, as omits crucial points: it's nil*-*value and *fixed* vs. current assets.
14 hrs
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You'll notice that my answer isn't reliant on rkillings' answer alone. You might also notice that my answer says "nil*-*value" assets.
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| agree |
Rachel Fell
1 day 2 hrs
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| disagree |
Francois Boye
: Nil value assets are tangible assets still used but totally depreciated. That definition is irrelevant to what is called 'immobilisation incorporelle'..
3 days 6 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
1 hr
Lena Johansson
Sweden
Sweden
Sweden
Pedagogik och franska
Native in: Swedish (Variants: Rikssvenska, Scanian / skånska)
Works in: French to Swedish, Swedish to French, English to Swedish, and 5 more.
invalid
Non-value is a state or property that produces no income.
(En francais, non-valable sans effet l'égal)
(En francais, non-valable sans effet l'égal)
Note from asker:
| Thank you for your suggestion! |
+2
11 hrs
non-value
Non-valeurs
Les non-valeurs (en anglais non-value) désignent des immobilisations incorporelles qui ne génèrent pas de valeur immédiate ou potentielle, dans le cycle d'exploitation d'une entreprise.
Ces non-valeurs englobent notamment les frais et commissions de création et d'établissement, le capital souscrit mais non appelé, les dépenses de recherche et de développement, les brevets, les fonds de commerce, les charges et produits constatés d'avance, comme les primes de remboursement sur les obligations.
Dans le cadre de la valorisation d'une entreprise, ces non-valeurs sont déduites de ses capitaux propres.
https://www.boursedescredits.com/lexique-definition-valeurs-...
Les composantes de l’actif sont évaluées à partir du bilan patrimonial ou financier de l’entreprise.
Il faut préciser que l’entreprise évalue ses actifs à leur valeur vénale. En effet, il est parfois difficile de procéder à des réévaluations des terrains ou des immeubles ou de tenir compte de la dévaluation des stocks ou des créances clients, il est impératif alors de conserver les valeurs nettes comptables.
Dans une optique liquidative, la recherche de la valeur de l’actif de l’entreprise implique généralement l’élimination des actifs qui n’ont pas de valeur économique. Ces actifs fictifs ou qualifiés de non-valeurs sont à éliminer de l’actif. Ils correspondent principalement à des charges de certaines activées de création ou de développement du bilan en application de certaines dispositions réglementaires. Il s’agit en majorité des frais d’établissement et des frais de recherche et développement ainsi que des charges futures incluses dans les comptes de régularisation de l’actif. Les non-valeurs comprennent également les primes de remboursement des obligations dont l’inscription à l’actif du bilan et l’amortissement permettent de distinguer l’impact sur le résultat.
Il faut noter aussi que les charges inhérentes à l’actif sont déduites des capitaux propres. Et, ils peuvent être étalés sur plusieurs exercices.
https://www.petite-entreprise.net/P-1790-88-G1-les-actifs-de...
Non-valeurs
Les non-valeurs sont des actifs incorporels enregistrés dans les immobilisations comptables d'une entreprise. Les non-valeurs se trouvent exclues des calculs de valorisation attachés à une entreprise. Les non-valeurs sont notamment les frais d'établissement, le capital souscrit et non appelé ou les primes de remboursement sur les obligations.
https://www.mataf.net/fr/edu/glossaire/non-valeurs
L’actif net comptable(ANC)
ANC correspond à la valeur théorique de l’entreprise. C’est à partir du bilan que cette valeur sera déterminée en faisant la différence entre le total de l’actif diminué des non-valeurs et du passif exigible total.
Donc :
ANC=Actif net total- l’actif fictif-le passif exigible total
L’actif fictif correspond à des non-valeurs qui comprennent les frais préliminaires, les charges à repartir sur plusieurs exercices et les primes de remboursement des obligations.
L’ANC peut se déterminer autrement à travers la relation suivante :
ANC = capitaux propres – actif fictif
A un moment donné de la vie de l’entreprise, le bilan donne une idée de la situation de celle-ci, et donc de la valeur comptable des éléments de l’actif et du passif. Il constitue une vision historique et non économique de l’entreprise, et pour passer de la première à la deuxième, des retraitements sont nécessaires. Ces derniers permettent de retenir la valeur de marché des immobilisations et de tenir compte des impôts latents.
https://apprendreéconomie.com/levaluation-financiere-de-lent...
Note from asker:
| Thank you so much for your input and explanations, Daryo! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Adrian MM.
: Gets closer to the 'charges on income' idea, as was in UK corp. tax. See the 'uncalled capital' explanation that cancels out the nil-value answer https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-german/other/843301-imm...
3 hrs
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Thanks!
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| agree |
Francois Boye
2 days 19 hrs
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Thanks!
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Reference comments
11 hrs
Reference:
What it's not
Nil value assets
Nil value assets are assets that are used beyond their useful life, they are fully depreciated and their carrying amount is zero. This usually occurs when:
Annual review was not performed of the useful life in terms of IAS 16 or the indicators requiring such a review in terms of IFRS for SMEs were not identified; or
The assumptions or circumstances made when the useful life was estimated have changed (resulting in useful life being different from what was initially estimated).
https://www.nexia-sabt.co.za/
Assets with nil net book value
Fixed assets are held at nil net book value but are not. Our machines are fully depreciated, but we still use them. ....
https://plorunb.netlify.app/537.html
IOW Nil value assets = assets that DO HAVE some real value (still used) but DO NOT HAVE any "book value"
exactly the opposite of
"non-valeurs" that DO NOT HAVE any real value (are ignored for the valuation of the company) but still DO HAVE some non-nil "book value".
Nil value assets are assets that are used beyond their useful life, they are fully depreciated and their carrying amount is zero. This usually occurs when:
Annual review was not performed of the useful life in terms of IAS 16 or the indicators requiring such a review in terms of IFRS for SMEs were not identified; or
The assumptions or circumstances made when the useful life was estimated have changed (resulting in useful life being different from what was initially estimated).
https://www.nexia-sabt.co.za/
Assets with nil net book value
Fixed assets are held at nil net book value but are not. Our machines are fully depreciated, but we still use them. ....
https://plorunb.netlify.app/537.html
IOW Nil value assets = assets that DO HAVE some real value (still used) but DO NOT HAVE any "book value"
exactly the opposite of
"non-valeurs" that DO NOT HAVE any real value (are ignored for the valuation of the company) but still DO HAVE some non-nil "book value".
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| neutral |
SafeTex
: The reference is fine but the conclusion is not as nil-value assets are clearly still accounted until the equipment is no longer used or sold.
12 hrs
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You might want to ask your dear friend ChatGT about the difference between "the book value" and "real economic value" of assets - if nothing else it's far quicker than actually having studied the subject matter like few minutes vs few months/years?
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| agree |
Adrian MM.
: Safetex: 'accounted *for* or booked until...'' and Daryo's exposition is still in line with IATE for uncalled capital and prelim. expenses/ co. promotional costs, nowt to do with nil value fr actif fictif EIB non-valeurs EIB en fictitious assets
14 hrs
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Thanks!
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| agree |
Francois Boye
3 days 2 hrs
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Thanks!
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Discussion
As for https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/patents/7138217... you were frustrated because you couldn't see what's wrong with the answer I disagreed with.
And in your diatribe you just confirmed why you couldn't understand my objection: you quote the explanation for a parameter that would have been the right answer in defence of an answer that is about a completely different parameter. That you can't spot the difference between the two tells enough.
https://www.nexia-sabt.co.za/sabtips/tangible-assets-carried...
As for Chatbots, they have to be used with care, but they can be very useful. Let's take a recent example on this forum, where you spoke of "bullet drop" when aiming a rifle:
"THAT characteristic of the ballistic trajectory is completely irrelevant for the purpose of aiming. // "la position de visée" is there for a reason ..."
Now let's see what ChatGTP has to say about this:
"Yes, bullet drop is an important factor to consider when aiming a rifle. Bullet drop refers to the downward trajectory of a bullet as it travels through the air. As the bullet travels further away from the rifle, it is affected by gravity, causing it to drop. This means that when aiming at a target at a distance, you need to adjust your aim higher to compensate for the bullet drop and ensure that the bullet hits the target accurately. Understanding and accounting for bullet drop is crucial for long-range shooting and can significantly impact the accuracy of your shots.
I'll leave it to the readers to decide who is right😜
is nothing more than a statistical rehashing of few (or maybe a lot?) texts found on the publicly available Web, possibly "edited" by someone with a rather superficial understanding of economics and/or accounting (see all the jobs-for-peanuts postings related to "improving AI"). Not a lot "intelligence" included, real or artificial ...
Correct version:
"Nil value assets" refers to assets that have zero monetary value in the company's accounts, which has precious little to do with whether these "nil value assets" really are totally worthless or still have a very real economic value.
Some "nil value assets" ("nil value" as per the company accounts) could be sold for a lot of money, while the company might have to pay a lot to get rid of some other "nil value assets".
Also, the brutally efficient "preuve par l'absurde" that "nil-value" is no good:
these "non-valeurs" MUST have some "book value" otherwise there would no point including them in the cited calculation.
After reading a bit about non-value and nil-value, I decided to ask ChatGTP for the difference , and the answer corresponded to what I'd already read:
Nil value assets" refers to assets that have no monetary value or are considered worthless. These assets may have been fully depreciated, damaged beyond repair, or no longer useful to the owner.
On the other hand, "non-value assets" are assets that do have value but are not considered as monetary assets. These assets may include items such as intellectual property, brand reputation, customer relationships, or employee skills and knowledge. While they may not have a direct monetary value, they can contribute to the overall value and success of a business.
That said, I'm still not sure which one is right here, but Daryo's disagree to "nil-value" is unjustified. It's clear that nil-value assets are carried in company accounts until the asset is no longer used or sold. [various sources say so]