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Bajonettkämme
genannt
Jun 30, 2023 07:48
11 mos ago
34 viewers *
German term

ansprechen

German to English Law/Patents Law (general)
I just wanted to check with German native speakers that there is no ambiguity in the sentence below i.e. that the writer is asking the addressee to speak to Paul's supervisor to tell him only about the fact that Paul has had a head injury, not about his attempt, given the wider context that I can provide. This is about a breach of medical confidentiality. The addressee DID contact the line manager and told him about details of the attempt. Please note that any names and references are fictional and the writer of the letter has authorized me to post this, so there is no breach of confidentiality on my part.

Sentence

Bei seinem Versuch erlitt Paul auch eine Kopfverletzung, die weiter untersucht werden muss. Ich waere Ihnen dankbar, wenn Sie nur Paul’s direkten Vorgesetzten (Herr X) so bald wie moeglich ansprechen koennten und Ihm erklaeren koennten, dass Paul wegen einer Kopfverletzung bis zum 10 Januar krankgeschrieben ist. Bitte sagen sie Sie mir Bescheid, ob Sie mit dieser Vorgehensweise einverstaendig sind. Paul haetten ansonsten am Montag den 6. Dezember am Ende seines Urlaubs in die Arbeit zurueckkehren sollen.

Wider context

Ich bin die Schwester von einem Ihrer Mitarbeiter. Sein Name ist im Artztschein - ich benenne Ihn nicht hier in der ersten Zeile, falls Ihre Sekretaerin ihn unabsichtlich liest. Ich schreibe Ihnen auf Deutsch denn (wie es vom Inhalt meines Schreibens auch selbstverstaendlich ist) ich moechte, dass das Weitere hoechst vertraulich behandelt wird, nur fuer Sie sichtbar ist und dass die spezifische Details an niemanden, selbst innerhalb vom der Firma, erteilt werden.


Letzte Woche, als er auf Urlaub war, versuchte Paul Selbstmord zu begehen.

Gluecklicherweise wurde er ins Krankenhaus eingeliefert und ueberlebte. Er wurde vom Krankenhaus entlassen und wird jetzt von mir gepflegt.

Er ist zur Zeit fuer einen Monaten (bis zum 10 Januar 2023) krankgeschrieben. Anliegend finden Sie das entsprechende Artztzeugnis.

Ich moechte Sie nochmal bitten, diese Tatsache und das Artztzeugnis hoechst vertraulich zu behandeln, und es und Paul’s Erkrankung/Gesundheitzustand an Vertreter der Personalabteilung (die ueberhaupt nicht unterstuetzend gewesen sind und gegen Ihre Vertraulichkeitspflicht gegenueber Paul in der Vergangenheit schon verstossen haben) und an irgendjemanen NICHT zu erteilen.

Bei seinem Versuch erlitt Paul auch eine Kopfverletzung, die weiter untersucht werden muss. Ich waere Ihnen dankbar, wenn Sie nur Paul’s direkten Vorgesetzten (Herr X) so bald wie moeglich ansprechen koennten und Ihm erklaeren koennten, dass Paul wegen einer Kopfverletzung bis zum 10 Januar krankgeschrieben ist. Bitte sagen sie Sie mir Bescheid, ob Sie mit dieser Vorgehensweise einverstaendig sind. Paul haetten ansonsten am Montag den 6. Dezember am Ende seines Urlaubs in die Arbeit zurueckkehren sollen.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 contact... [see below]
4 approach
3 consult (with)

Discussion

Wolfgang HULLMANN Jul 29, 2023:
Not unambiguous It simply means "sich wenden an", "sprechen mit". So to turn to, to contact, to talk to, or to approach seem to viable alternatives.
Jemanden wegen einer Sache ansprechen is quite common in German, I daresay. The Duden proposes: auf etwas ansprechen (reagieren)

See all examples here: https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/ansprechen : 1. + 3.a. + 3.b.
Especially 3.b., first example sentence, applies here.
Björn Vrooman Jun 30, 2023:
I'd say yes. Some alternatives might be speak to, approach, or ask to see. But contact should be fine.

Be aware that the last sentence in the previous paragraph ("...NICHT zu erteilen.") isn't very grammatical. I think the very first paragraph is much clearer so that's a save.

Lastly, I should note that if she had written "...so bald wie möglich darauf anzusprechen...," the situation would have been a bit different, since "darauf" would have pointed to the preceding sentence and that includes "Versuch."

But she didn't and, anyway, the addressee could have gotten in touch with her to clear up any misunderstanding.

Good luck!
Alexxx (asker) Jun 30, 2023:
Bjoern - thank you so much. I thought as much and just wanted to have my interpretation confirmed since the matter is likely to go mega legal and I need to tap into the translators' "hive mind"!. Plus the writer also asked the addressee to let him/her whether addressee agrees with the suggested approach (for a belt-and-braces approach) and the addresse failed to contact him/her, went ahead and told the line manager about the suicide attempt. Would you translate "ansprechen" with "contact" in this case?
Björn Vrooman Jun 30, 2023:
Thanks! I asked because if this had happened in Germany under German rules, she shouldn't have talked to anyone (except for maybe the "Betriebsarzt") about anything related to the matter but instead given the supervisor a doctor's note.

As one of the Krauts, I personally see little wiggle room here. Yes, I could tell she's only near-native (it's the grammar, it's always the grammar) but this part is pretty clear; the addressee was only supposed to inform the supervisor about Paul's head injury.

I think Jennifer's explanation (grammar-wise) is pretty spot on. I'd even go a step further here and would say that "ansprechen" is usually taken quite literally. Yes, it essentially means that you should get in touch or contact someone but do so in person or possibly on the phone and mostly when no one else is around. Other natives might disagree with me about that last part, though.

Also, you got 2 verbs here, ansprechen and mitteilen. They describe the sequence of steps you need to take: ansprechen as in trying to get a hold of the supervisor (the prefix is "an-," not "be-") and mitteilen, as in telling them about something. What that something is, is stated in the dass clause.

Best
Alexxx (asker) Jun 30, 2023:
Hi Bjorn. This did not happen in the UK, but UK-confidentiality obligations would apply. The letter was written in German precisely to ensure that confidentiality would not be breached within the company. It was an extra step. Just trying to understand whether there was any "wriggle room" in the formulation given the context, the multiple explicit reminders about not revealing the exact details of the medical issue/health state to anybody within the company. I have specified t his in my replies to Jennifer and Caisely. Basically, could anybody have read the sentence and thought - it is OK for me to speak to the supervisor ALSO about the suicide attempt? It is to be noted that the writer asked the addressee "Please let me know if you agree with this approach" and the addressee did not contact the writer but went ahead, spoke to the supervisor and mentioned also the suicide attempt. Hope this is clear.
Björn Vrooman Jun 30, 2023:
@Alexxx Am I correct in assuming that this happened in the UK and she only wrote the letter in German so that anyone who likes sticking their nose into other people's business won't understand a word of it (basically)?

Proposed translations

+2
56 mins
Selected

contact... [see below]

Caveat - I'm not a native German speaker!

As far as I can see, the "ansprechen" part is just asking the recipient to *contact* Paul's supervisor and then explain that he's off sick due to a head injury etc. The only thing that she asks the recipient to explain is "dass Paul wegen einer Kopfverletzung bis zum 10 Januar krankgeschrieben ist" - in my eyes, there's no suggestion that any further details should be provided.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2023-06-30 08:55:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Absolutely - I completely understand! It's that tricky line between "ansprechen + person" (i.e. contacting them) and "ansprechen + topic" (i.e. raising the issue generally), but as the grammatical object of ansprechen is the superior himself, I'm fairly confident it's the former. Interested to hear what the native speakers think, though :)
Note from asker:
Thank you Jennifer. That would be my interpretation as well - I am polling native speakers here because I would like to have 100% assurances. "Ansprechen" here would mean "speak to", "reach out to", "contact" and not a generic "tell" i.e. medical confidentiality should have not been breached. Waiting to see what German native speakers have to say. Thanks very much for you input!
Thank you so much Jenny. I think it's tricky formulation because the writer is a near native and not a native speaker, but the key thing for me to understand is whether there is any "wriggle room" i.e. if the addressee (native German speaker) could have construed the sentence as some sort of authorisation to disclose ALSO the details of the suicide attempt/health condition to the line manager, given the context (i.e. earlier in the text the writer expressly states TWICE that specific details, the matter, the medical certificate Paul's illness/health state should not be disclosed to anybody including company employees and HR) due to confidentiality and reputational issues.) The writer also asked the addressee to get back to him and tell him whether he agreed to this approach. The addressee did not reply to the writer, but immediately spoke to Paul's supervisor and told him about the suicide attempt. What's your take?
Peer comment(s):
agree Birgit Gläser
2 hrs
agree Björn Vrooman
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you Jennifer and all other contributors too!!!!"
2 hrs

consult (with)

I think we need to know the German-lingo region of the speaker. In North Germany (ref. Michael Degen, Berlin, 'Nicht alle waren Mörder), this might be phrased: 'auf ihn... einzusprechen', a turn of phrase that raises eyebrows when I have used it in Vienna.

PS being a one-quarter native German squeaker, my answer may be only 25% accurate,
Example sentence:

In case of doubt, employees should consult with their supervisor or the HR department. Im Zweifelsfall sollten die Beschäftigten ihre Vorgesetzten oder die Personalabteilung ansprechen.

Reference:

http://context.reverso.net/übersetzung/englisch-deutsch/consult+with+your+supervisor

Note from asker:
Hi Adrian. Thank you for this. What I am after is something different, i.e. I just need to make sure that, 1) Given the context and the previous reminders about confidentiality beforehand in the text (specific details of the suicide attempt and other conditions not to be disclosed to anybody including within the company) and 2) given the way the sentence is written, there is no ambiguity about the fact that the writer has asked the addressee to speak with Paul's line manager ONLY about the head injury and not about the suicide attempt/other health conditions. What happened in this case is that medical confidentiality was broken and the addressee told the line manager about the suicide attempt.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Birgit Gläser : No consult is not the right one here... The employer needs to be informed... an nobody should consult with the employer about any details on why Paul is off sick... despite of what the idiot messenger actually did ;-)
1 hr
Something went wrong...
1 day 8 hrs

approach

I think "approach" would be good choice as it carries the connotation of a delicate matter being handled.

The same is true for the German "ansprechen". In fact, that sophistication almost surprises me about the source text, as there seem to be a few instances of ungrammatical, non-native speaker-like language.

Compare with this:
"We would be most grateful if you could approach SWAS again for us and seek these reassurances for the residents of this area."
https://cms.wiltshire.gov.uk/documents/s120454/Letter to Cla...
Something went wrong...
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