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grande enceinte

English translation: great enclosure

16:34 Dec 14, 2021
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - History / Academic article on Byzantium
French term or phrase: grande enceinte
L'apport de l'archéologie n'est cependant pas moindre : il résulte de sondages effectués dans des villes encore occupées, et surtout des fouilles menées depuis 1987 sur le site abandonné de lévêché de Scolacium et dans la "grande enceinte" de Tiriolo
Verity Roat
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:32
English translation:great enclosure
Explanation:
See page 256 of https://iris.unive.it/retrieve/handle/10278/3674670/73589/HA... : 'the "great enclosure" of Tiriolo'
Selected response from:

Marco Solinas
Local time: 20:32
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +4great enclosure
Marco Solinas
4 +3large fortification wall
Katrin Dolle
4 +1outer wall
Bourth
4Big surrounding wall
Anastasia Kalantzi
4Great wall
Lara Barnett


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
great enclosure


Explanation:
See page 256 of https://iris.unive.it/retrieve/handle/10278/3674670/73589/HA... : 'the "great enclosure" of Tiriolo'

Marco Solinas
Local time: 20:32
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Steve Robbie: Keep the scare quotes. In this phrase ("grande enceinte"), enceinte appears to refer to the fort as a whole, not the walls. Note also that the linked article is by G. Noyé, the same author as Barbara's citation. She clearly didn't think it meant "wall".
1 hr
agree  SafeTex: My second agree as Marco is on to something. I think it all depends on the exact context each time as to whether "wall" or "enclosure" is best
2 hrs
agree  Nicole Acher: "Great enclosure" is the best term to use here, and is used that way in the passage referenced by Marco.
5 hrs
agree  Daryo
5 hrs
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41 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
large fortification wall


Explanation:
According to the text provided by Barbara in the discussion section, the terms "les grandes enceintes" refers to three large fortification walls that remain of the Byzantine fortified citadel.


    Reference: http://www.tirioloturistica.it/en/portfolio/poi17-naturalist...
Katrin Dolle
Germany
Local time: 05:32
Works in field
Native speaker of: German

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Barbara Cochran, MFA: Yes, I thought about entering what you just have as the best possible solution.
6 mins
agree  SafeTex: or the more often used "defensive wall"
2 hrs
agree  Michele Fauble: Defensive wall.
3 hrs
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47 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Big surrounding wall


Explanation:
Good evening. You could find the term enceinte in English interpretation in many ways, such as precinct, quandrangle, bailey, fortification, barricade, hedge, which in French [as well as for every latin-european language] of course would initially derive from the latin incingere [enclose, surround, wall] and mean of course the above terms, but I chose to take the most appropriate in terms of archaeological disposition. Enceinte is also, and especially in the old times, the church's sanctum, meaning the sanctuary and this was the term's primary sens.

Anastasia Kalantzi
Greece
Local time: 06:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Greek

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Lara Barnett: You could not use "big" here.// Of course, but "big" is not the correct synonym. Ie. In the context you require large, tall, great etc, not "big", it is not exactly the same usage or definition.
4 hrs
  -> It is true that the term surrounding wall is considered to be large by itself, but on the other hand it conforms to an accurate translation. Even if one does not use it anyway, it is more faithful to the original text.
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Great wall


Explanation:
This is my opinion.

Lara Barnett
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:32
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
1 corroborated select project
in this pair and field What is ProZ.com Project History(SM)?
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
outer wall


Explanation:
It's complicated! The text linked here
https://www.persee.fr/doc/crai_0065-0536_1997_num_141_4_1580...

explains that the defensive system of Tiriolo 'juxtapose PLUSIEURS enceintes'.

There's the citadelle, a much larger wall, presumably concentric, and a third wall, 'situé du côté le plus accessible, un peu en contrebas'. Being on only one side of the second wall, the third must not have been concentric.

Which raises the question of what constitutes 'grande enceinte': the second wall, since it by itself constitutes an 'enceinte', or the third (partial) wall and that part of the second wall not contained within the third?

I'd go for 'outer wall' which could be taken to refer exclusively to the second, since it alone is a complete peripheral wall, while at the same time potentially referring to the third wall AND that part of the second wall not protected by it . No refs to support it though.



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Note added at 6 hrs (2021-12-14 23:31:29 GMT)
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Change of angle:
It might be that your text concerns not the specific 'grande enceinte' of Tiriolo, but rather the concept of 'grandes enceintes perchées' or 'grandes enceintes refuges' in Calabria, of which Tiriolo is one, in which case you are looking at a more general term, one that refers not to an actual wall but to what lies within it and the protection it provides.
In the same general area you have Santa Caterina dello Ionio, "a small village surrounded by defensive walls" where people sought refuge.

If this is the meaning in your text, I'd be tempted to say 'THE DEFENSIVE (or FORTIFIED) POSITION OF TIRIOLO'.

"Mais l’implantation, sur des sites de hauteur, d’un réseau de « GRANDES ENCEINTES-REFUGES » qui semblent caractéristiques de cette période, en Sicile131 et en Calabre, à Tiriolo, Amantea et peut-être aussi à l’emplacement de l’antique Temesa (Pian della Tirrena)132, laisse supposer que l’importance acquise par les villages fut aussi prise en compte au VIIe siècle par les autorités. Offrant un refuge aux populations rurales des habitats ouverts qui les entouraient, elles servaient aussi de POINT D’APPUI À DES GARNISONS. La FORTIFICATION de Tiriolo est formée de trois grandes aires entourées de murs, qui sont juxtaposées au sommet de la montagne et protégées par des à-pics rocheux ; ce site exceptionnel, qui contrôle ensemble les côtes tyrrhénienne et ionienne, constituait le pivot d’une chaîne de kastra barrant l’isthme de Catanzaro. Placée à l’extrémité de l’éperon qui en constitue aussi le point le plus élevé, la citadelle était alimentée en eau par une grande citerne et comptait au moins deux grandes salles appuyées à l’enceinte et aménagées pour le séjour d’un groupe humain consistant, qu’on suppose militaire, avec des fosses de stockage ; la deuxième enceinte, la plus vaste, finit par abriter, vers le XIe siècle, un habitat permanent de l’importance d’une ville, desservi par une grande église de plan basilical. C’était sans doute aussi un lieu d’échanges, sorte d’emporium au contact d’une économie montagnarde et de la plaine agricole de l’isthme."



Bourth
France
Local time: 05:32
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 7

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Anastasia Kalantzi: Bravo, et c'est parce que vous avez fait une analyse archéologique scientifique excellente!
14 hrs
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