Glossary entry (derived from question below)
German term or phrase:
Form und Norm
English translation:
precepts and principles
Added to glossary by
Timoshka
Mar 25, 2021 21:19
3 yrs ago
25 viewers *
German term
Form und Norm
German to English
Social Sciences
Religion
German Evangelical Lutheran Church
From the parish constitution of a German Evangelical Lutheran Church in Nebraska, dated 1872:
“In unserer Gemeinde werden alle canonische Bücher des Alten u. Neuen Testaments als Gottes geoffenbartes Wort anerkannt und sämmtliche symbolische Bücher der evang. luth. Kirche, als die aus dem Worte Gottes gezogene Form und Norm, nach welcher, weil sie aus Gottes Wort genommen, nicht nur die Lehre in unserer Gemeinde geführt und geprüft, sonder nauch alle vorfallende Lehr- und Religionsstreitigkeiten geurtheilt und regulirt werden sollen. Diese sind: die drei Hauptsymbole, die ungeänderte Augsburgische Confession, derselben Apologie, die schmalkadischen Artikel, Dr. Luthers Kleiner und großer Catechismus, die Concordien Formel u. die Visitationsartikel.”
My tentative translation:
"In our parish, all of the canonical books of the Old and New Testaments are recognized as God’s revealed Word, and all of the symbolical books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church are recognized as [die aus dem Worte Gottes gezogene Form und Norm], according to which, since they are taken from God’s Word, not only the teaching in our parish should be conducted and tested, but also any disputes of doctrine and religion that occur should be judged and regulated. The latter are: the Three Chief Symbols, the Unaltered Augsburg Confession, the Apology of the same, the Smalcald Articles, Dr. Luther’s Smaller and Larger Catechism, the Formula of Concord and the Articles of Visitation."
I can't seem to track down exactly how "die aus dem Worte Gottes gezogene Form und Norm" is used in this context... Any suggestions?
“In unserer Gemeinde werden alle canonische Bücher des Alten u. Neuen Testaments als Gottes geoffenbartes Wort anerkannt und sämmtliche symbolische Bücher der evang. luth. Kirche, als die aus dem Worte Gottes gezogene Form und Norm, nach welcher, weil sie aus Gottes Wort genommen, nicht nur die Lehre in unserer Gemeinde geführt und geprüft, sonder nauch alle vorfallende Lehr- und Religionsstreitigkeiten geurtheilt und regulirt werden sollen. Diese sind: die drei Hauptsymbole, die ungeänderte Augsburgische Confession, derselben Apologie, die schmalkadischen Artikel, Dr. Luthers Kleiner und großer Catechismus, die Concordien Formel u. die Visitationsartikel.”
My tentative translation:
"In our parish, all of the canonical books of the Old and New Testaments are recognized as God’s revealed Word, and all of the symbolical books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church are recognized as [die aus dem Worte Gottes gezogene Form und Norm], according to which, since they are taken from God’s Word, not only the teaching in our parish should be conducted and tested, but also any disputes of doctrine and religion that occur should be judged and regulated. The latter are: the Three Chief Symbols, the Unaltered Augsburg Confession, the Apology of the same, the Smalcald Articles, Dr. Luther’s Smaller and Larger Catechism, the Formula of Concord and the Articles of Visitation."
I can't seem to track down exactly how "die aus dem Worte Gottes gezogene Form und Norm" is used in this context... Any suggestions?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +2 | precepts and principles |
Michael Martin, MA
|
| 4 +2 | rule and standard |
Eric Zink
|
| 3 | Holy Writ |
Lancashireman
|
| 3 -1 | Rules and Tools |
Adrian MM.
|
Proposed translations
+2
1 day 5 hrs
Michael Martin, MA
United States
United States
Native in German
&
English
Works in field
United States
Creativity wins in the long run
Native in: German (Variant: Germany) 
, English (Variant: US)
Works in: German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
20
Selected
precepts and principles
"...precepts and principles derived from God's word...": Alliteration achieves a similar effect as rhyme.
https://www.growingchristians.org/devotions/precept-or-princ...
Also, the translation looks better and is easier to understand if we turn passive into active voice:
"In our parish, we acknowledge all of the canonical books of the Old and New Testaments as God’s revealed Word, and all of the symbolical books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church as precepts and principles derived from God's word by which - since they are taken from God’s Word - we should not only conduct and examine the teaching in our parish but also judge and settle any disputes of doctrine and religion."
https://www.growingchristians.org/devotions/precept-or-princ...
Also, the translation looks better and is easier to understand if we turn passive into active voice:
"In our parish, we acknowledge all of the canonical books of the Old and New Testaments as God’s revealed Word, and all of the symbolical books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church as precepts and principles derived from God's word by which - since they are taken from God’s Word - we should not only conduct and examine the teaching in our parish but also judge and settle any disputes of doctrine and religion."
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Lancashireman
: Very good, Michael. As you say, alliteration is always a fair trade for rhyme.
10 hrs
|
|
Thanks, Andrew.
|
|
| agree |
TonyTK
: This is good.
1 day 6 hrs
|
|
You, too, Tony.
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Vielen Dank!"
47 mins
German term (edited):
die aus dem Worte Gottes gezogene Form und Norm
Holy Writ
I don't think we have a corresponding rhyming couplet in EN. I think you can omit the second of the three references to "Gottes Wort".
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Note added at 1 hr (2021-03-25 22:40:45 GMT)
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Some non-rhyming couplets:
word and deed
form and content
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2021-03-25 22:40:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Some non-rhyming couplets:
word and deed
form and content
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
AllegroTrans
: This works although I don't think it's necessary to mimic the rhyming couiplet
1 hr
|
| disagree |
Eric Zink
: This is not a reference to the Bible (which is what "Holy Writ" would refer to). This is a reference to "sämmtliche symbolische Bücher der evang. luth. Kirche". And you can't drop the second and third references and maintain the meaning.
3 hrs
|
|
There you go again, Eric.
|
-1
2 hrs
Adrian MM.
Austria
Austria
Native in English
Austria
Retd.T&I, Barrister & Austro-Advokat
Native in: English (Variants: Scottish, British)
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Rules and Tools
'There is no rhyming couplet to reflect the source text'.
1. There really isn't
2. There is a fuzzy match
3. There is a direct hit, but 'not many people know that'.
1. There really isn't
2. There is a fuzzy match
3. There is a direct hit, but 'not many people know that'.
Example sentence:
The Rules and Tools of a Revelator: Chief Apostle, Joseph Prude
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
AllegroTrans
: Apart from there being no need to imitate the rhyming couplet, this doesn't fit either the register or the era
12 hrs
|
|
oh dear - I suggest you take a closer look and rail at the tautologous rule-and-standard + precepts-and-principles answers instead
|
+2
4 hrs
rule and standard
I wouldn't focus on the rhyme in German.
The reference here is not to the Bible (which is what Lutherans would generally mean by "Wort Gottes"), but to the Lutheran books derived from it ("sämmtliche symbolische Bücher der evang. luth. Kirche"). Religious books are often said to provide a "rule of life" or "standard for living" (a Lutheran publication is apparently called the "Lutheran Standard"), and these two terms can be nicely combined.
The reference here is not to the Bible (which is what Lutherans would generally mean by "Wort Gottes"), but to the Lutheran books derived from it ("sämmtliche symbolische Bücher der evang. luth. Kirche"). Religious books are often said to provide a "rule of life" or "standard for living" (a Lutheran publication is apparently called the "Lutheran Standard"), and these two terms can be nicely combined.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
AllegroTrans
10 hrs
|
| agree |
Johanna Timm, PhD
15 hrs
|
| neutral |
Lancashireman
: This might have found more favour with the asker if you hadn't been quite so dogmatic elsewhere on the page. It is a massive turn-off for askers.
1 day 11 hrs
|
Discussion
Comprehensive Summary, Rule and Norm According to which all dogmas should be judged, and the erroneous teachings [controversies]that have occurred should be decided and explained in a Christian way."