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garantie sur facture
en l'état des dispositions de derns dispositions de dernières volontés susvisées
Nov 6, 2019 18:33
4 yrs ago
French term

dessus de table

French to English Bus/Financial General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters colloquial expression
From a deposition about some banking/money laundering schemes, the following question:

"Étiez-vous au courant que XXX recevaient des pots de vins/dessus de table pour leur rôle dans....?

Could this be a typo in the process of taking a deposition? Which is my feeling. Or is this an expression I'm unaware of? Meaning: "openly taking bribes" or something of the like. The former is my guess, but maybe someone out there has a different take.
Proposed translations (English)
5 +3 under the table
4 +3 bribe
3 +2 payoff
3 backhander
3 -2 kickback
Change log

Nov 6, 2019 20:28: writeaway changed "Field" from "Law/Patents" to "Bus/Financial" , "Field (write-in)" from "Bank income statement" to "(none)"

Nov 6, 2019 20:29: writeaway changed "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "colloquial expression"

Discussion

Daryo Nov 8, 2019:
Ockham's Razor ... yes, a pretty good tool! Usually very reliable.
It's a typo, one easy to miss.
Wolf Draeger Nov 7, 2019:
Ockham's Razor Says it's a typo. Periood. Ful stopp. :-)
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Nov 7, 2019:
dessous-de-table If that is what is intended, there should be hyphens. ;-) I think it is perfectly clear that it is a type, given that it is with "pot-de-vin".
B D Finch Nov 7, 2019:
A typo or not a typo? I think you should check with the client. If it's not a typo, it would surely mean that the bribes are quite blatantly given and received.
Wolf Draeger Nov 6, 2019:
Agree it's a typo Unless XXX was really into furniture! Mind you, in some places, bribes are so common and brazen that they literally do travel over the table...
Peter Field Nov 6, 2019:
For 'pot de vin', how about 'backhander'?
Peter Field Nov 6, 2019:
I agree it's a typo.
Philippe Etienne Nov 6, 2019:
Typo From the context, I feel it should indeed read "dessous de table"
Timothy Rake (asker) Nov 6, 2019:
clarification typo in the sense that, in the haste of recording the deposition, it was noted "dessus de table" as opposed to "dessous de table", which makes logical sens, at least to me: "under the table"

Proposed translations

+3
8 mins
Selected

under the table

The person who took note of the recording confused dessus for dessous. Your hunch is correct.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2019-11-06 23:09:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Fortunately the asker and the judges have been watching.
Peer comment(s):
agree Eliza Hall : Under-the-table PAYMENTS, yes. (The VF should say dessous, not dessus).
2 hrs
Thank you Ms. Hall.
disagree writeaway : never knew it was used as a noun. an under the table payment would work. not under the table on its own. call this a kind disagree/I am sure. So if you want a disagree, here it is
3 hrs
Why don't you disagree? You are not sure.
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Under-the-table payments, yes. I agree with Eliza.
18 hrs
Thank you.
agree Cyril Tollari : under-the-table payments
1 day 4 hrs
Thank you
agree Daryo : exactly "under-the-table payments"
1 day 16 hrs
Thank you.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+3
22 mins

bribe

The expressions are synonymous.
Example sentence:

(...) les entreprises déterminées à ne pas verser des dessous-de-table ou incapables de le faire.

Reference:

https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/dessous_de_table/24557

https://www.linguee.com/french-english/translation/un+dessous+de+table.html

Peer comment(s):
agree Elisabeth Richard
1 hr
agree writeaway
1 hr
agree Eliza Hall : Yes, but that's what pots-de-vin means, so we need a synonym for the second expression.
1 hr
'Backhander'?
disagree Ali Sharifi : Bribe means passing money under the table but it is not equivalent of under the table, it moves away from the expression.
1 hr
agree Michael Davies : I must agree with those who have suggested it is a typo and should have been 'dessous de table'. It is the only possibility that is logical.
13 hrs
agree Cyril Tollari : non-hyphenated dessous de table = bribe
1 day 3 hrs
disagree Daryo : too wide // no - there are tens / hundreds OTHER methods for giving bribes "des dessous-de-table" is only one of them
1 day 15 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
6 hrs

payoff

Perhaps this synonym for bribe? because bribe feels so inherently linked to "pot de vin" (so translation would read "bribes/payoffs")
Peer comment(s):
disagree Ali Sharifi : Payoff is like bribe, they both could pass under the table but neither is under the table which the French expression.
7 mins
agree Jacob Brennan : I think you're right, Stephanie. 'Under the table payments' sounds more like a euphemism in English, a deposition needs to be more to the point.
8 hrs
thank you:)
agree Wendy Streitparth
8 hrs
thanks!
agree Mark Harris
10 hrs
thanks!
neutral Daryo : a "payoff" could also be a bribe - but it's not the main meaning - not the first one that springs to mind - why use an ambiguous term when it's not necessary? https://www.thefreedictionary.com/payoff
1 day 9 hrs
Something went wrong...
-2
15 hrs

kickback

Another possibility
Peer comment(s):
disagree Ali Sharifi : kickback is like bribe, not under the table.
12 hrs
So are you suggesting that bribes and kickbacks are officially made?
disagree Daryo : "kickbacks" often ARE made openly through apparently "legitimate" transactions.
1 day 50 mins
Something went wrong...
2 days 12 hrs

backhander

Used in UK English to mean a bribe
Reference:

https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/anglais-francais/backhander/564140

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/backhander

Something went wrong...
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