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No mold to fit.
Jun 4, 2019 15:16
4 yrs ago
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English term

as of (x date)

English Law/Patents Telecom(munications) US ENGLISH
Specific question:

Does the English expression \"As of\" invariably mean starting on a specific date?

CONTEXT

I come across this expression in legal disclaimers all the time, for different industries.

For example:

“Average Retail Values for XXX food prizes are based on average menu prices as of June 2nd, 2019.”
They can claim to know that what the prices were ON THAT SPECIFIC DATE, but they cannot possibly know what the prices will be on any future date.

OR

*Speed claim based on average download speeds as of June 2nd, 2019.

They are making a claim about the results of field tests that were conducted ON THAT SPECIFIC DATE. The speeds may be different on any other date, so “as of” cannot possibly mean “starting on.”

I cannot find any references to back this up, but it is an ongoing debate I have with my fellow translators and proofreaders.
Responses
5 +1 see explanation
4 +3 on
3 +4 As of (starting) // As at (specific)
References
Not an official source

Discussion

Björn Vrooman Jun 5, 2019:
PS Just another tidbit:
"This definition of as of is given by Wiktionary:

From, at, or until a given time.

Most dictionaries give the first two senses, but Garner [A Dictionary of Modern Legal Usage; Bryan A. Garner] disagrees:

But as of now does not mean 'at present'; rather it means 'up to the present time'.... [It] is today totally unobjectionable in AmE."
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/112770/understan...

Best
Mark Robertson Jun 4, 2019:
@George Rabel Would you say that the use of "as of" is incorrect?
Answer: No, because the only possible meaning of "as of", in the context, is "at the present time".
George Rabel (asker) Jun 4, 2019:
Examples https://www.google.com/search?ei=er72XK6gIq2t5wL0go6gCw&q="A...
George Rabel (asker) Jun 4, 2019:
@Helena The Wiki discussion that Björn mentions gave me this idea, which illustrates the point even better than the examples I provided. Let's suppose we're watching the news on TV. They are talking about a bank robbery.

"As of today, no arrests have been made."

Would you say that the use of "as of" is incorrect in that example?
Helena Chavarria Jun 4, 2019:
I use 'on' when I refer to a date when something happens. I had never heard 'as at' until today: 'They signed the agreement on 10 May'.

I use 'as of' when I'm translating and I want to express the idea that something starts on a specific day and continues: 'The painting will be on show as of Monday'.

I never say or write 'as from', though I might say 'from Monday onwards'
Björn Vrooman Jun 4, 2019:
PS I remember "as of" from stock market pages; there, it definitely means "on," possibly in combination with some chart showing historical data:
"The current price of the Dow Jones Industrial Average as of June 03, 2019 is 24,819.78."
https://www.macrotrends.net/1319/dow-jones-100-year-historic...

Best
Björn Vrooman Jun 4, 2019:
See also this Wiki discussion:
"I'm not sure that we actually use 'as of'...in the US sense. The OED here claims that it means 'the time or date from which something starts' whereas we use it to mean 'the date on which something was the case'. Peter...

As a speaker of US English, 'as of' for this template sounds completely natural to me, and I've never heard 'as at' before now...Some cursory research suggest that 'as at' may indeed be a non-US (British and/or Canadian) usage, and/or a usage that's somewhat specific to financial reports...Anomie...

I have various Oxford, Collins, 'paper' dictionaries as resources and also a very good publication from Readers Digest, 'The Right Word at the Right Time'. It refers to 'as from' and 'as of' as 'fashionable prepositional phrases'. The Collins refers to 'as from' being of British derivation and 'as of' as being American/Canadian...Neils51"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:As_of

Best
Björn Vrooman Jun 4, 2019:
Mark makes some good points.

In American English, as of can basically mean the opposite in two different situations (you just pointed that out, too, George).

"ON, AT, FROM —used to indicate a time or date at which something begins or ends"

I also know "as of" in the sense of "until." Here's a good post about this:
http://learnersdictionary.com/qa/as-of-today

I quote:
"As of today can mean 'from the beginning up until now, including today,'...On the other hand, it can also mean 'starting today and going forward into the future,'...even has a third meaning, which is less common than the other two. It can mean 'today, only” with the implication that things are likely to change."

Not the same in British English, AFAIK; that's why you see all these posts insisting it's used to indicate the start of something.

[...]
George Rabel (asker) Jun 4, 2019:
In about 20 years as a translator in the U.S. I have never come across the expression "as at," but I have encountered "as of" countless times with the meaning of "on this specific date." In the examples I provide, there is no question to me that it refers to that particular date, and that date only. As a translator, I have no control over the English-language source, but I do have control over my own translation. Phil and Andy appear to be saying that the use of "as of" is incorrect in that context.
Mark Robertson Jun 4, 2019:
OED: page 675; as from / as of as from, in formal dating: from, after. Also (orig. U.S.), as of: (a) at the present time; (b) from this moment, from now.
Mark Robertson Jun 4, 2019:
There seems to be some debate about this. https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/112770/understan...

Responses

+1
20 mins
Selected

see explanation

"as of" and "as at" mean on that date and not starting on that date.

A dictionary of Modern Legal Usage p. 79

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2019-06-04 17:09:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The entry in A Dictionary of Modern Legal Usage reads as follows:

at at (= as of) is characteristic chiefly of BrE and of financial contexts in AmE, e.g. "This book reflects the law AS AT August 1986." Stanley Berwin, The Economist Pocket Lawyer (1986). / "The common law took the coldly logical view that bastardy was judged AS AT the date of birth and was indelible... " J.H. Baker, An Introduction to English Legal History 558 (3rd ed. 1990).
Peer comment(s):
agree Björn Vrooman : You are the only one not insisting on "starting on/at." This is simply a UK/US English issue. I should add the Longman link about "as of" (not "as at"), which confirms what I've said (so does M-W): https://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/as-of
18 hrs
La Perfide Albion
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks to all. "
+3
20 mins

on

They're confusing "as at", which means "on", with "as of/from", which means "starting on".

http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/as-at
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/as-of-...
Peer comment(s):
agree Andy Watkinson
24 mins
neutral Mark Robertson : "as from" and "as of" are only synonymous when as of means from this moment, not when it means, at the present time.
37 mins
I think they are, and so does the Cambridge Dictionary :-)
agree Helena Chavarria
1 hr
agree Tina Vonhof (X)
1 hr
Something went wrong...
+4
25 mins

As of (starting) // As at (specific)

Hi.

The usage I'm familiar with suggests that "as of" is the starting point.
"They began to use this system as of 3rd June" (and have been using it since that date)

"As at" would be on that specific date.
e.g. in accounting:

"Provisions for impairment totalled €2,289.32 as at 3rd June" - that's what they totalled on that specific date - now it's anybody's guess.

Peer comment(s):
agree Helena Chavarria : I like your explanation: simple and to the point!
4 mins
Thanks, Helena - some usage gets a bit fuzzy after 40 years.
agree Raffaella Benelli : Agree, it means “starting from + date”
17 mins
Thanks Raffaella - that's how I've always understood it.
agree Yvonne Gallagher
2 hrs
agree Oliver Simões
1 day 6 hrs
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Reference comments

22 mins
Reference:

Not an official source

but interesting all the same!

“As of” is a little phrase but I have a lot to say about it. Although it is very common in business writing it can create ambiguity if used incorrectly.

Ambiguity is caused by the fact that “as of” has three different meanings: on, since or from, depending on the context.

Have a look at these sentences:

The contract enters into force as of 1 January 2013. = on

The contract has been effective as of 1 August 2011. = since

The contract is effective as of 1 January 2013. = from

As you see, the meaning of “as of” is determined by the grammar and wording of the sentence in which it is used. So when you use “as of” it is essential that this grammar and wording is correct for the reader to understand what you mean.

https://blog.harwardcommunications.com/2012/04/02/as-of/

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2019-06-04 15:44:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Incidentally, I only use 'as of' when I'm translating and I want to say on (including) the date mentioned in the text and thereafter.

as of 10 June = on 10 June and the days that follow (11, 12, 13...)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2019-06-04 17:43:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Effective Date These Terms of Use are effective as of August 1, 2015.

https://womanwithin.org.uk/terms-of-use/

Phlebotomy
The Trust provides a Monday – Friday 8.00 – 11.30 phlebotomy service at Kettering Borough Council, this has been effective as of January 2011. This is an additional service to enhance the phlebotomy service provided within the pathology department.

From a downloaded document
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral Mark Robertson : Examples 2 and 3 in the text you quote seem only to work in EN-US.
1 hr
I thought I had made it clear that it wasn't an official reference. I found it amusing, that's all. I'm a British native but I would understand examples 2 and 3. Thank you for your opinion, Mark :-)
agree Yvonne Gallagher : I never use it in UK English, but in US English I take it to mean as your last line: ON and following...too
2 hrs
Thank you, Yvonne :-)
agree Björn Vrooman : While your post may not represent a worldwide view on the subject, it is helpful, in my opinion. The Harward link is backed up by M-W (see "How to tell"): http://learnersdictionary.com/qa/as-of-today
18 hrs
Thank you, Björn :-)
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