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Nov 23, 2015 19:05
8 yrs ago
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German term

Gut ankommen

German to English Social Sciences Poetry & Literature
I would appreciate your help with this headline: "Gut ankommen in Deutschland"

The context is a guide for refugees who have just arrived in Germany. The guide intends to provide information to help them get started and familiarize them with Germany and the German ways of doing things.

My sense is that a straightforward translation along the lines of "Arriving safely in Germany" doesn't quite capture the tacit connotation of "social" (vs. physical) arrival implicit here, but I can't seem to come up with anything that does. I have been considering "Getting off to a good start in Germany" as an alternative, but I would prefer a solution that keeps more with the German phrase. Does anyone have a suggestion? I would greatly appreciate your help!
Proposed translations (English)
4 +4 Finding Your Way In Germany
3 +3 Now you're in Germany...
3 +1 Newcomer
3 navigating your way
3 Find your footing
3 Coming to Germany

Discussion

Kristina Cosumano (X) Nov 29, 2015:
Beating a dead horse by now but the old-fashioned use of the word "arrived" fits both meanings perfectly; however, these days I can't imagine that even native English speakers would "get" that, in a short title like this. If that could be adapted in just the right way then you've won the thread.
Horst Huber (X) Nov 29, 2015:
Reading the whole thread takes time, but I fail to find any recognition that "ankommen" can take on the connotation of "succeeding". A problem is that "gut ankommen" takes away from that; it can suggest that so-and-so simply reaches such-and-such a place as planned and in good condition. Björn's "make it to" and "make it in" would seem the best suggestion, unless I am told it is bad English. In that case Sinatra's song about New York ("If I can make it there, I'll make it anywhere"),would fit that bill as well.
Kristina Cosumano (X) Nov 25, 2015:
As someone who just moved to Germany... ...I can tell you that the "open arms" feeling does not apply to highly-skilled Americans with German fiancés, either. Until you get a permanent residence visa or citizenship, they are welcoming but they don't want anyone to get the wrong idea. There are conditions. (They have, in my experience, proved more welcoming than Austria.)
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 25, 2015:
@Stephan "The problem is that the phrase "gut ankommen" is being translated into multiple languages and I simply cannot do something completely different from what the others are doing..." Why not, if it's most appropriate?
Eleanore Strauss Nov 25, 2015:
@lancashireman I followed the discussion as long as I could (and had time) and was converted by the ultimately rational/sensible arguments. My initial response was colored by a sense that being welcoming and friendly would achieve more. It's complex to say the least.
Stephan Elkins (asker) Nov 24, 2015:
@ Björn All those suggestions are really very good. The problem is that the phrase "gut ankommen" is being translated into multiple languages and I simply cannot do something completely different from what the others are doing even if it sounds great in English. So I guess I'll have to opt for something that comes as close to the German phrase as possible.
Björn Vrooman Nov 24, 2015:
I suppose you meant Albrecht, not Alfred.

Besides doubling up on "in," the suggested capitalization is somewhat interfering.

Thinking about adjusting Lancashireman's answer here:

Now that you are in Germany: What's next?
Finally in Germany - and now?

My personal favorite (but that'd be pushing it):
Now that you are in Germany: What do you need to know about the locals?

To keep the wordplay based on aykon's answer

Made it to Germany: How can you make it in Germany?
Lancashireman Nov 24, 2015:
in in Bit clumsy, though non-native speakers won't be too worried about that I suppose.
Settling in sounds like they will be making themselves really at home, i.e. adapting their surroundings to their own liking. Best not show a copy to the locals (When in Rome etc).
Stephan Elkins (asker) Nov 24, 2015:
Settling In in Germany What do you all think about "settling in"? (Picking up on Alfred's suggestion).
Björn Vrooman Nov 24, 2015:
Had to post this:

"Gut ankommen in Deutschland" - Angebote für Flüchtlingsfamilien mit ihren Kindern

In Planung sind

Gemeinsam Musik machen mit den Kleinsten
Schwimmkurs für muslimische Frauen
Musik und Bewegung
Nähen
Kochen

[and as a particular Schmankerl:]
Basiskompetenzen für Mütter/Frauen "In Deutschland leben - wie geht das?
http://cms.bistum-trier.de/bistum-trier/Integrale?MODULE=Fro...

I'm sure RTL2 will be happy to secure the rights to the first reality TV show.
Eleanore Strauss Nov 24, 2015:
unbelievable the hair-splitting discussion here... but then again this topic is a sensitive one... and I don't envy you in Germany
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 24, 2015:
Here you are again, because I'm a fraid it got lost in the discussion.
Stephan Elkins (asker) Nov 24, 2015:
Thank you all so much! I am awed by the many responses, and a bit embarrassed that I had a difficult time coming up with a good solution considering the many options that you have suggested. I guess now I face tha agony of choice. Since the heading will be translated in other languages as well, I am a bit reluctant to be too creative and stray too far from the German version. Whatever the solution will be, it should stick as close as possible to the idea of "gut ankommen." Thanks again!
Stephan Elkins (asker) Nov 24, 2015:
@ Björn: Sorry for my late response. The author is aware of the ambiguity. And it is meant in a positive way. Thanks for your input!
Horst Huber (X) Nov 24, 2015:
Back to philgoddard --- I suggested "your welcome" to suggest, as the phrase goes, something you can earn or lose (as in "I overstayed my welcome").
Björn Vrooman Nov 24, 2015:
@Kristina
That's why I asked Stephan about the writer's intent. If Gut ankommen is a wordplay which includes the meaning of "Gut bei den Deutschen ankommen," then this is as much a welcome as it is a statement of do's and don'ts, nothing very heartwarming.

Maybe I am too biased because of brochures like the one shown in the video reference below. Telling refugees not to urinate in public while they see everyone else doing it is quite the feat.

@all
Slightly OT, but since I only had the chance to talk to one person about it, I'm still curious as to how the British view our German (Nicht-)Willkommenskultur.

Mainly follow the US side and by now, Americans must think we have completely lost it.
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 24, 2015:
Here you are perhaps, as an offered gesture and a matter of fact
Kristina Cosumano (X) Nov 24, 2015:
@Björn If I were writing the broschure, I'd go with 'Refugees Guide' for those very reasons. The original German title does attempt to create some warmth, however, and I suppose we should try to continue down that line.
Björn Vrooman Nov 24, 2015:
That's an interesting take. The debate is still raging on about whether they are to be integrated into society or get "subsidiären Schutz" - the new word from the bill just passed.

Living at a market square in a bigger town has its disadvantages - trying to go shopping while people have their rallies outside my door is quite unnerving.

I'd probably prefer your Refugees' Guide to Life in Germany. Yes, it sounds cold, but sometimes I think people aren't aware of the fact that Ehrenamtliche make up a small portion of the population. Example? Not too long ago, I read about how great the wilingness to help was in one town - erm, we were talking about 200 people out of a population of about 15,000.

Go ask people to help repair a soccer stadium in exchange for a season ticket. You probably would require a call center.
Kristina Cosumano (X) Nov 24, 2015:
How about "Be Our Guest"... ...which has the advantage of 1) offering (limited) hospitality, 2) the implication that one act accordingly, and 3) being the title of a well-known Disney song. OK, 3) may not be much of an advantage but I'm waiting for my first coffee to brew.
Björn Vrooman Nov 24, 2015:
@Stephan Trying to determine whether the writer was aware of the ambiguity introduced by the title. If so, the statement is not nearly as positive as it may sound at first, because "safe arrival" and "how to not stand out in a negative way" will cancel each other out. Can you shed some light on this? How does the document continue?
Björn Vrooman Nov 23, 2015:
My two-and-a-half cents All you need to know about Germany

Short enough but neutral; sums up the content of the brochure (I hope).

I just hope it's not one of these "manuals" they have already handed out in some cities. Those include things that even Germans don't adhere to.

Have a laugh while watching this video clip:
http://www.focus.de/politik/videos/knigge-fuer-asylbewerber-...
Björn Vrooman Nov 23, 2015:
Keep...something Guess only the asker saw the wordplay here?

ankommen (1) = arrive/settle down
ankommen (2) = how other people will view you (based on your actions, etc.)

It's both a reassurance (if you can call it that) of being safe now as well as a call for adapting to local culture.

One of the government-funded TV channels, ARD, has its own Refugee TV and refugee page now: http://www.ard.de/home/ard/guide-for-refugees-wegweiser-fuer...

Considering the mobile/cell mania among refugees, it's probably one of the first sources they will turn to.

In line with keeping it simple, maybe you'll find some inspiration from there. But I agree with Lancashireman that you should be careful about the wording. The mood is already volatile enough and I'm sure the refugees arriving in Germany will sense that too.
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 23, 2015:
I agree with Thomas that the English must be a simple as possible. I also agree with Lancashireman's suggestion, with the minor changes to read 'Now that you are in Germany.' A simple and friendly opening that leaves no doubt as to its intent.
Lancashireman Nov 23, 2015:
Keep it neutral Refugees are not 'welcome' in the sense of skilled migrants arriving to do jobs the locals are unable/unwilling to do. Nor should they be encouraged to behave as if they were 'at home' ("familiarize them with ... the German ways of doing things").
Thomas Pfann Nov 23, 2015:
Keep it simple Da für einen Großteil der Zielgruppe Englisch vermutlich nur eine Fremdsprache ist, halte ich es hier auch für wichtig, sich einfach auszudrücken. Etwas allzu Idiomatisches würde ich daher vermeiden
Helen Shiner Nov 23, 2015:
Another looser suggestion Feeling at home in Germany
Eleanore Strauss Nov 23, 2015:
@philgoddard Although the 'welcome' approach is somewhat overused, this sounds like a simple, straightforward and above all feel-good solution.
Actually like the 'getting off to a good start' suggestion.
Albrecht Degering Nov 23, 2015:
Lösungen aus anderer Quelle Die Stadt München hat es so gelöst: "Settling down in ..." (http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadtverwaltung/Sozialreferat...
philgoddard Nov 23, 2015:
You could say "Welcome to Germany". I know that's not the meaning, but it's the kind of thing you'd expect to see as the title of such a publication.

Proposed translations

+4
2 hrs
Selected

Finding Your Way In Germany

A cross between two other answers given here, but I think you should keep it as simple as possible – English won't be anyone's first language, and idioms may not work.
Reference:

http://www.refworld.org/docid/4ed89a862.html

Peer comment(s):
agree Cilian O'Tuama : does it for me
5 hrs
Thanks, Cilian!
agree Sanni Kruger (X) : I think this hits it perfectly.
8 hrs
Thanks, Sanni!
neutral Björn Vrooman : While not wrong, it provides the same ambiguity as "How to get around..." (http://www.spur.org/blog/2015-07-28/finding-your-way-downtow... ). If English is not their native language, "way" is not the way to go (pardon the pun).
9 hrs
I think ambiguity is probably desired here. Asylum isn't permanent. The clearest, no-nonsense title I can think of is "Refugees' Guide to Life in Germany" but this sounds very cold.
agree H. C. Centner
11 hrs
Thanks Helen
agree Eleanore Strauss : Nice, neutral, informative. And I'm assuming Germany will not be permanently absorbing so many refugees...
17 hrs
Thank you ElliCom
neutral Lancashireman : With Björn. A sequel to the popular Finding Your Way To Germany? (Interesting to note that Ellli Communications is now a convert to the "neutral" approach.)
19 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I want to thank you all for your constructive responses! I greatly appreciate your help and your many ideas how to solve this. Iam either going to go with this option or the initial suggestion of my own: "(Getting) off to a good start in Germany". Some of the other suggestions would work just as well, and depending on the context perhaps even better. "
10 mins

navigating your way

my take on what you are asking
Something went wrong...
11 mins

Find your footing

or "Get your bearings" in Germany, perhaps.
Off the top of my head...There must be many ways to express this, I am sure.. This is obviously about more than making it to Germany safely...
http://www.npr.org/2015/09/20/441732811/in-germany-migrants-...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 mins (2015-11-23 19:27:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Surviving Germany" is also a popular (and very German) concept used in the broader context but the authors might prefer a slightly more enticing phrase.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 48 mins (2015-11-23 19:53:40 GMT)
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Thomas is right. Best to keep it simple. How about "Arriving in Germany"?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 53 mins (2015-11-23 19:58:14 GMT)
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Or "Finding a new home in Germany."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2015-11-23 20:05:14 GMT)
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"Starting out in Germany" is mildly idiomatic but easily understood...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Björn Vrooman : Please don't give refugees who just survived the Mediterranean Sea and the trip across the Balkans a brochure entitled Surviving in Germany. That'd be scary :) // Sadly, too true.
1 hr
Good point. And yet, it might help them realize that their struggles are not over yet..
neutral Kristina Cosumano (X) : "Surviving Germany" only works in the context of a first world problem. I am also against using it here.
11 hrs
You're probably right. On the other hand, refugees may be too busy "surviving" to pause and consider the irony
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

Newcomer

It's not exactly "gut angekommen", but maybe close enough. Newcomer is often used in guides for immigrants, see refs and do a google search.
Titles that could be used:
Newcomers in Germany
The Newcomer's Guide to Germany
Newcomers' Guide to Germany
Reference:

http://immigration.terra.com/newcomers_guide.html

https://portal.ehawaii.gov/residents/newcomers-guide/

Peer comment(s):
agree Anjali Kulkarni : Yes. Title can be simply 'Newcomers' Guide to Germany' and the further text can start with ....Now that you are in Germany...
6 hrs
Danke vielmal. Sounds good.
Something went wrong...
2 days 5 hrs

Coming to Germany

Easy to understand, businesslike, but not unfriendly and close to the original, to boot.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days5 hrs (2015-11-26 00:53:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Seeking meagre accommodations and all that..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjjoVAgqp4s
Something went wrong...
+3
1 hr
German term (edited): Gut ankommen in Deutschland

Now you're in Germany...

It's both a statement of fact and of intent. Business-like and neutral.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2015-11-23 21:20:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Making your way in Germany
(Could possibly be added as an amendment to DJ's proposal)
Plenty of examples on the internet of
Making your way in the world
Making your way in life
etc
But strangely, no examples of
Making your way in Germany


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day1 hr (2015-11-24 20:37:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

You've made it to the big time: Now don't blow it
Go down a treat in Germany
Be an instant hit
How to make friends and influence Germans
etc

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 days (2015-12-05 00:29:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Are you gong to close this yourself or leave it to the robot on 7th December (i.e. 14 days after you posted the question)? The current leader is Finding Your Way In Germany. Is this what you used? Is this the version that best suits your context? In other words, is this the answer that you found most useful?
Peer comment(s):
agree Ramey Rieger (X) : Yes. I would skip the contraction and add 'that'. Now that you are in Germany...
7 mins
Thanks, Ramey. I prefer the shorter version because it can be read two ways.
neutral Eleanore Strauss : Not exactly friendly... the 'gut ankommen' is ignored... but I do agree with Ramey to skip the contraction here... occurred to me as well Friendly is generally more effective... especially given these circumstances
22 mins
agree BrigitteHilgner
11 hrs
agree Björn Vrooman : Stephan is in a difficult situation (alignment of translations, never pretty), so he may not be able to use your answer. But for further reference, neutral phrasing will keep you out of politics. The Robinson Club is German, but not Germany.
1 day 50 mins
Thanks, Björn. Having read the constraints he is working under, I suspect he will go for MM's fourth option.
Something went wrong...
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