Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
con el pelo de la ropa
English translation:
did not touch a hair of
Added to glossary by
Evan Tomlinson
Oct 5, 2015 22:31
8 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Spanish term
\"con el pelo de la ropa\"
Spanish to English
Other
Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
The context is a book on Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz, a 17th century Mexican nun who wrote philosophical poetry, among other things.
Local context: "¿Es alguno de los principios de la Santa Fe, revelados, su opinión, para que la hayamos de creer a ojos cerrados? …ni toqué la Sagrada Compañía *con el pelo de la ropa*"
The nun was writing a response to a bishop who had forbidden her to write anything more about "worldly" matters.
My guess would be "with a six foot pole", but that changes the metaphor completely. Perhaps there's some other translation that preserves both form and content better than my suggestion does.
Local context: "¿Es alguno de los principios de la Santa Fe, revelados, su opinión, para que la hayamos de creer a ojos cerrados? …ni toqué la Sagrada Compañía *con el pelo de la ropa*"
The nun was writing a response to a bishop who had forbidden her to write anything more about "worldly" matters.
My guess would be "with a six foot pole", but that changes the metaphor completely. Perhaps there's some other translation that preserves both form and content better than my suggestion does.
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +1 | did not touch a hair of | Charles Davis |
3 | in any shape or form | David Hollywood |
3 | with the hem of my robe | Muriel Vasconcellos |
References
Refs. | Taña Dalglish |
Proposed translations
+1
20 mins
Selected
did not touch a hair of
This looks at first sight like a mistaken attempt at a literal translation, but I think it might be a way of capturing the idea without sounding too modern. As in the original, "hair" is used to express the very slightest, most minimal contact. It can be extended to "a hair of the head of", but I think you can omit "the head of" if you like. An emphatic variant might be "so much as a hair of".
A modern near-equivalent might be "never laid a finger on". She's been accused of attacking the Jesuits and is denying it.
Here's an example from 1801 applies to a non-human object:
"He congratulated the House on the vigilance of Ministers, who, whilst they acted upon emergencies with vigour, did not touch a hair of the head of the Constitution."
https://books.google.es/books?id=JVUxAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA186&lpg=P...
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Note added at 9 hrs (2015-10-06 08:27:07 GMT)
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"Un pelo de la ropa" is an idiomatic set phrase, and it already was in the period Sor Juana was writing. Here is the definition from the first RAE dictionary of 1737:
"No tocar al pelo de la ropa. Phrase con que se dá à entender, que no se ha ofendido ni hecho daño à alguien, ni dicho cosa sensible."
So I think it is appropriate to use an idiomatic set phrase to translate it, and the one I've proposed seems to me to fit the bill.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2015-10-06 08:32:32 GMT)
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So what she means is "I have done absolutely nothing to offend the Holy Company" (i.e. the Jesuits).
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Note added at 1 day9 hrs (2015-10-07 08:00:26 GMT) Post-grading
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Hi Erik,
Thanks! I have a facsimile copy of the first DRAE, not an original! I bought it some time ago because I used to do a lot of historical research, and it's really invaluable for early modern texts. But nowadays you can consult it online, along with many other early dictionaries, via the RAE's excellent NTLLE site:
http://ntlle.rae.es/ntlle/SrvltGUILoginNtlle
Just click on the first icon top left, enter your search term, and youl get a list down the left-hand side of the screen of all the dictionaries in the database in which the term appears. You click on the one you want to see and you can view a facsimile of the dictionary entry. Very, very useful if you're dealing with historical usage!
A modern near-equivalent might be "never laid a finger on". She's been accused of attacking the Jesuits and is denying it.
Here's an example from 1801 applies to a non-human object:
"He congratulated the House on the vigilance of Ministers, who, whilst they acted upon emergencies with vigour, did not touch a hair of the head of the Constitution."
https://books.google.es/books?id=JVUxAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA186&lpg=P...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2015-10-06 08:27:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"Un pelo de la ropa" is an idiomatic set phrase, and it already was in the period Sor Juana was writing. Here is the definition from the first RAE dictionary of 1737:
"No tocar al pelo de la ropa. Phrase con que se dá à entender, que no se ha ofendido ni hecho daño à alguien, ni dicho cosa sensible."
So I think it is appropriate to use an idiomatic set phrase to translate it, and the one I've proposed seems to me to fit the bill.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2015-10-06 08:32:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
So what she means is "I have done absolutely nothing to offend the Holy Company" (i.e. the Jesuits).
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day9 hrs (2015-10-07 08:00:26 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
Hi Erik,
Thanks! I have a facsimile copy of the first DRAE, not an original! I bought it some time ago because I used to do a lot of historical research, and it's really invaluable for early modern texts. But nowadays you can consult it online, along with many other early dictionaries, via the RAE's excellent NTLLE site:
http://ntlle.rae.es/ntlle/SrvltGUILoginNtlle
Just click on the first icon top left, enter your search term, and youl get a list down the left-hand side of the screen of all the dictionaries in the database in which the term appears. You click on the one you want to see and you can view a facsimile of the dictionary entry. Very, very useful if you're dealing with historical usage!
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you Charles for your extensive and informative answer. I am impressed that you have access to a copy of the DRAE from 1737!"
5 mins
in any shape or form
still sounds modern but maybe someone can get closer ....
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Note added at 13 mins (2015-10-05 22:44:53 GMT)
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maybe "with the hem of my habit"
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Note added at 14 mins (2015-10-05 22:45:53 GMT)
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just inventing but might work ...
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Note added at 19 mins (2015-10-05 22:50:21 GMT)
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pretty aggressive but that's the tone
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Note added at 13 mins (2015-10-05 22:44:53 GMT)
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maybe "with the hem of my habit"
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Note added at 14 mins (2015-10-05 22:45:53 GMT)
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just inventing but might work ...
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Note added at 19 mins (2015-10-05 22:50:21 GMT)
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pretty aggressive but that's the tone
2 hrs
with the hem of my robe
A little closer to the original meaning. 'Hair' might be too close, IMO.
Reference comments
23 mins
Reference:
Refs.
no tocar un pelo de la ropa a algn > (idiom) > not to lay a finger on sb
Conferencia magistral, Universidad del Cuyo,
works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?params=/...
La filosofía de sor Juana Inés de la Cruz: cinco navegaciones filosóficas en el Primero Sueño y ...... …ni toqué la Sagrada Compañía con el pelo de la ropa… …
En la respuesta a sor Filotea se muestra el choque frontal entre sor Juana y el obispo Santa Cruz y Vieyra:
“Si el crimen está en la Carta atenagórica ¿fue aquella mas que referir sencillamente mi sentir con todas las venias que debo a la Santa Madre Iglesia? Pues si ella con su santísima autoridad no me lo prohíbe, ¿por qué me lo han de prohibir otros? ¿Llevar una opinión contraria de Vieyra fue en mi avenimiento, y no lo fue en su paternidad llevada contra los tres Santos Padres de la Iglesia?
Mi entendimiento tal cual ¿no es tan libre como el suyo, pues viene de un solar? ¿Es alguno de los principios de la Santa Fe, revelados, su opinión, para que la hayamos de creer a ojos cerrados?
…ni toqué la Sagrada Compañía con el pelo de la ropa…
…Si es, como dice el censor, herética, ¿porqué no la delata?...si está bárbara…ríase bien…”71
Sor Juan Inés de la Cruz. Obras Completas. p. 844
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/spanish-english/...
no tocar un pelo de la ropa a algn
Translations
IDIOM
not to lay a finger on sb
https://archive.org/stream/spanishidiomswit00beckuoft/spanis...
http://www.dictionary-spanish-english.com/en/dictionary-span...
Conferencia magistral, Universidad del Cuyo,
works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?params=/...
La filosofía de sor Juana Inés de la Cruz: cinco navegaciones filosóficas en el Primero Sueño y ...... …ni toqué la Sagrada Compañía con el pelo de la ropa… …
En la respuesta a sor Filotea se muestra el choque frontal entre sor Juana y el obispo Santa Cruz y Vieyra:
“Si el crimen está en la Carta atenagórica ¿fue aquella mas que referir sencillamente mi sentir con todas las venias que debo a la Santa Madre Iglesia? Pues si ella con su santísima autoridad no me lo prohíbe, ¿por qué me lo han de prohibir otros? ¿Llevar una opinión contraria de Vieyra fue en mi avenimiento, y no lo fue en su paternidad llevada contra los tres Santos Padres de la Iglesia?
Mi entendimiento tal cual ¿no es tan libre como el suyo, pues viene de un solar? ¿Es alguno de los principios de la Santa Fe, revelados, su opinión, para que la hayamos de creer a ojos cerrados?
…ni toqué la Sagrada Compañía con el pelo de la ropa…
…Si es, como dice el censor, herética, ¿porqué no la delata?...si está bárbara…ríase bien…”71
Sor Juan Inés de la Cruz. Obras Completas. p. 844
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/spanish-english/...
no tocar un pelo de la ropa a algn
Translations
IDIOM
not to lay a finger on sb
https://archive.org/stream/spanishidiomswit00beckuoft/spanis...
http://www.dictionary-spanish-english.com/en/dictionary-span...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree |
Charles Davis
: It was already an idiom at the time.
9 hrs
|
Thanks.
|
Discussion
In this case, I certainly wouldn't rule out a conscious biblical reference, but I don't see the need for it, and actually it doesn't seem to me very a propos.
Using a set phrase certainly, but she wasn't a great one for the demotic was she? And her language has a strong Biblical influence.