Nov 28, 2014 15:16
9 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Spanish term
trillo
Spanish to English
Other
Agriculture
Olive pressing
"Tiene una estructura tradicional: el acceso se realiza por el llamado portal foráneo, que da paso a la clastra, un patio interior alrededor del cual se distribuyen las demás dependencias, entre las cuales destaca la almazara, con elementos característicos para elaborar el aceite, como el *** trillo *** o la viga"
This is part of a description of a Mallorquin estate and buildings.
The term “trillar” usually refers to threshing grain, and a “trillo” according to the RAE is what I would call a threshing board.
Any ideas? Thanks.
This is part of a description of a Mallorquin estate and buildings.
The term “trillar” usually refers to threshing grain, and a “trillo” according to the RAE is what I would call a threshing board.
Any ideas? Thanks.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | trullo > mill / millstone |
Charles Davis
|
| 4 +1 | (oil) press |
neilmac
|
| 3 +1 | crushing board |
TravellingTrans
|
| 3 | treasher |
telefpro
|
Proposed translations
1 day 21 hrs
Selected
trullo > mill / millstone
I am now convinced this is the solution to the puzzle, and I think it's worth a separate answer.
Trillo makes no sense here, but trullo makes plenty of sense. It is a standard term for an olive oil mill; see the references I've already posted in the discussion sections. It refers to the stage before pressing. It involves crushing the olives, normally with enormous circular (cylindrical or conical) stones that roll over the olives, known in Catalan as rutlós.
As one of my references above indicates, "trullo" sometimes refers to the actual millstones, and the same is true of "trull" in Catalan:
"1. trull 1
Font Diccionari de la llengua catalana de l'Institut d'Estudis Catalans (2a edició)
Local destinat a la fabricació de l'oli. Safareig o pica cavat a la pedra, destinat a guardar-hi l'oli procedent de la premsa. Cassal . Cup . Corró troncocònic que volta el molí d'oli i esclafa les olives. Corró de pedra troncocònic que hom fa rodar per esclafar terra, grava, etc. [...]"
http://www14.gencat.cat/llc/AppJava/index.html?action=Princi...
That could possibly be the case here, but on balance I think it's more likely to refer to the mill as a whole: probably not the space where the mill is housed, but the mill itself, consisting of a stone base and millstones. That's how the word seems to be used most commonly. In Mallorca the whole mill, as a building, is called the "tafona", and the "trull", as I say, is specifically the milling "machine". Here's a good page with an illustration; see section 1 b): Trull:
http://www.conselldemallorca.net/?&id_parent=463&id_section=...
A very relevant source, in Catalan, is this article, "Les tafones de Mallorca. Estat de la qüestió", with illustrations. See the section beginning as follows, on pp. 20-21 (p. 6 of 10 in the pdf):
"El procés de la mòlta [milling] de l'oliva pot realitzar-se en un trull tradicional o en una màquina de trullar [...]"
http://www.conselldemallorca.net/media/32161/J_Florit.pdf
Trillo makes no sense here, but trullo makes plenty of sense. It is a standard term for an olive oil mill; see the references I've already posted in the discussion sections. It refers to the stage before pressing. It involves crushing the olives, normally with enormous circular (cylindrical or conical) stones that roll over the olives, known in Catalan as rutlós.
As one of my references above indicates, "trullo" sometimes refers to the actual millstones, and the same is true of "trull" in Catalan:
"1. trull 1
Font Diccionari de la llengua catalana de l'Institut d'Estudis Catalans (2a edició)
Local destinat a la fabricació de l'oli. Safareig o pica cavat a la pedra, destinat a guardar-hi l'oli procedent de la premsa. Cassal . Cup . Corró troncocònic que volta el molí d'oli i esclafa les olives. Corró de pedra troncocònic que hom fa rodar per esclafar terra, grava, etc. [...]"
http://www14.gencat.cat/llc/AppJava/index.html?action=Princi...
That could possibly be the case here, but on balance I think it's more likely to refer to the mill as a whole: probably not the space where the mill is housed, but the mill itself, consisting of a stone base and millstones. That's how the word seems to be used most commonly. In Mallorca the whole mill, as a building, is called the "tafona", and the "trull", as I say, is specifically the milling "machine". Here's a good page with an illustration; see section 1 b): Trull:
http://www.conselldemallorca.net/?&id_parent=463&id_section=...
A very relevant source, in Catalan, is this article, "Les tafones de Mallorca. Estat de la qüestió", with illustrations. See the section beginning as follows, on pp. 20-21 (p. 6 of 10 in the pdf):
"El procés de la mòlta [milling] de l'oliva pot realitzar-se en un trull tradicional o en una màquina de trullar [...]"
http://www.conselldemallorca.net/media/32161/J_Florit.pdf
Note from asker:
| I really am very grateful. |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "See discussion entries"
43 mins
treasher
My suggestion
+1
48 mins
TravellingTrans
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
Timely Translation Turnaround
Native in: English (Variant: US)
Works in: Spanish to English, Chinese to English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
crushing board
These are examples of the use of "trillo" in this context, so I believe it is definitely a real word and not an error:
como un trillo vertical, que por percusión provocaría la salida del aceite.
Sobre el montón de orujos o el pieli se pone una tabla, en general el trillo
El trillo de pedernal o de ruedas servía para separar el grano de las espigas
Trillo que aplastaba las aceitunas
y en las espigas, y él no ha hecho mas que sacarlos con la prensa o con el trillo
Estoy intentando restaurar un antiguo trillo de labranza
Entonces se ponen en la era, y, o bien a palos, o bien con el trillo se separan
Looking at photos, it is basically a type of specialized board for mashing or squeezing olives and separating out the pits, similar to the idea of threshing but with olives instead of wheat or grains
This may be dialectic variance from other terms, but it definitely is a real thing
I would go with "crushing board" but it's simply a functional description, substituting crushing for threshing as it is essentially the same item
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Note added at 3 hrs (2014-11-28 18:46:34 GMT)
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as the discussion posts above indicate, I'm modifying crushing board to "olive mill"
como un trillo vertical, que por percusión provocaría la salida del aceite.
Sobre el montón de orujos o el pieli se pone una tabla, en general el trillo
El trillo de pedernal o de ruedas servía para separar el grano de las espigas
Trillo que aplastaba las aceitunas
y en las espigas, y él no ha hecho mas que sacarlos con la prensa o con el trillo
Estoy intentando restaurar un antiguo trillo de labranza
Entonces se ponen en la era, y, o bien a palos, o bien con el trillo se separan
Looking at photos, it is basically a type of specialized board for mashing or squeezing olives and separating out the pits, similar to the idea of threshing but with olives instead of wheat or grains
This may be dialectic variance from other terms, but it definitely is a real thing
I would go with "crushing board" but it's simply a functional description, substituting crushing for threshing as it is essentially the same item
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2014-11-28 18:46:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
as the discussion posts above indicate, I'm modifying crushing board to "olive mill"
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
neilmac
: I've gone off this one in light of the discussion. Now think "mill" or "press" may be the best solution...
31 mins
|
| agree |
Charles Davis
: I'll vote for "mill"
22 hrs
|
|
cheers
|
+1
1 hr
(oil) press
"People have used olive presses since Greeks first began pressing olives over 5,000 years ago"...
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Note added at 1 hr (2014-11-28 16:41:50 GMT)
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https://www.google.com/search?q=oil press&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=e...
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Note added at 1 hr (2014-11-28 16:45:17 GMT)
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It may just be this, although it's usually called "prensa de aceite" in Spain. Otherwise TT's crushing board could be what they we are looking for.
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Note added at 1 day20 hrs (2014-11-30 11:34:04 GMT)
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Now that Charles has shown it is most likely a typo for "trullo", "mill" may be a more accurate choice, although I still stand by "press" too.
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Note added at 1 hr (2014-11-28 16:41:50 GMT)
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https://www.google.com/search?q=oil press&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=e...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2014-11-28 16:45:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It may just be this, although it's usually called "prensa de aceite" in Spain. Otherwise TT's crushing board could be what they we are looking for.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day20 hrs (2014-11-30 11:34:04 GMT)
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Now that Charles has shown it is most likely a typo for "trullo", "mill" may be a more accurate choice, although I still stand by "press" too.
Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil_extraction#First_cold_pressed_.E2.80.93_cold_extraction
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Muriel Vasconcellos
: This appears to be the logical equivalent.
12 hrs
|
|
Or perhaps "mill", as Charles suggests...
|
Discussion
La casa do es el trullo en que se faze el olio deve ser posada cara medio dia. E que sea bien defendida de todo frio. [....]"
http://librodenotas.com/encasadeluculo/21754/breve-historia-...
http://infomallorca.net/articulos/mallorca.es.html?cr=44&tIt...
"El trullo (rutló) es una gran piedra cónica, girando sobre su eje más pequeño sobre la gran losa redonda,( súmola) machaca las aceitunas que van cayendo del embudo rectangular de madera , la tolva ( tremutja)
La plataforma concava está formada por piezas en forma de cuña con acabado abujardado (volsosos) y servía para recoger la aceituna triturada."
http://www.artifexbalear.org/tafona.htm
So maybe "millstone" is the way to go.
"Trullo es el local destinado a la fabricación del aceite de oliva; en Mallorca se denomina tafona, del árabe aṭṭaḥúna (molino), y en el País Valenciano almassara, del árabe alma‘ṣára (molino de aceite). [..] Originariamente el trullo era el ingenio con que tradicionalmente se aplastaban, o trullavan, las olivas para preparar la pasta antes de ser prensada.
En algunos lugares se da el nombre de trullo al lavadero donde se almacena el aceite.
Antiguamente también se decía trullo a la prensa para obtener vino."
http://www.olearum.es/det_glosario.php?id=150
I would say this is very likely to be the solution. If so, it leaves you with the problem of the English equivalent, but it's a start.
http://www.sabor-artesano.com/gb/olive-oil-press.htm
Whether you are right and ‘trillo’ refers to the press itself, I have no idea. Theoretically, the text was written by an expert at the “Consell de Mallorca” for their official website, so inaccuracies are surprising - and usually restricted to style and meaning rather than lexical items. Yet, anything is possible!
but yes, I still think mill and press make as much sense as we're going to get out of this term
But as I say, I also think "mill" is likeliest. After all, the mill and the press are the two basic pieces of equipment.
I don't think the threshing board idea is at all likely either. Olives are gathered by shaking the tree or beating the branches and collecting the fruit in nets on the ground. There's no threshing to be done.
Antiguo trillo o Trilla de piedra negra en muy buen estado, gran tamaño.
Trillo , en muy buen estado , con prácticamente , todas las piedras, ya encerado y tratado, listo para poner , donde se quiera . pieza muy decorativa
Antigüos Trillos y Trillas de grandes medidas. De piedra blanca, piedra negra o de cuchillas de hierro. Ideales para la decoracion de su hogar
not proof, but the idea of a decorative piece of stoneware seems fairly established
putting 2+2 together I would feel it's a relatively decent bet to go with olive mill
I say one-off, because the other quote, "trillo que aplastaba las aceitunas", is about Columella's Roman tudicula, so it doesn't count (because no tudicula has ever been found, so there can't be one in Mallorca). Have you seen any more references?
As things stand, mill or millstone looks to me like the best guess.
This may not be a proper use of the word trillo, but it is used here and there, in any event it seems certain that they source wants to refer to an item used to crush or grind olives
This may also be wishing to refer to the woven mats upon which the olive paste is spread and then pressed to extract the oil from the paste
but the common idea in the usage I've seen suggests crushing, grinding:
Trillo que aplastaba las aceitunas
Las aceitunas se molían en el trillo de piedra y pasaban a la batidora
so in this case it might be wanting to say "olive mill"
since viga is the press, this isn't going to be a press, but since trillo is grounped with viga, maybe it is along the lines of "such as an olive mill or olive press" (the area in question of the source)
The Roman writer Columella (1st century AD) mentions a thing called a tudicula used to extract oil from olives, described in a Spanish article as "como un trillo vertical, que por percusión provocaría la salida del aceite", but no examples have ever been found and nothing like it is used in Spain.
I don't know what they can be referring to. Olives are not crushed by a board, they're simply pressed. But I've never heard of an olive press being called a trillo and I can't find any references to this at all.