Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
abus frauduleux de l’ignorance ou de la faiblesse
English translation:
fraudulent abuse of ignorance or weakness
Added to glossary by
Thomas T. Frost
Sep 21, 2014 19:00
9 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term
United Kingdom
www.lingocraft.co.uk
Native in: English (Variants: Irish, Singaporean, UK, South African, British, Scottish) 
Works in: French to English, Italian to English, Romanian to English, and 2 more.
Abus frauduleux de l’ignorance ou de la faiblesse
French to English
Bus/Financial
Law (general)
Police enquiry letter
I have found "abuse of ignorance or weakness" in a translation from a Belgian law. Is this the correct term for this here?
Context reads:
"Abus frauduleux de l’ignorance ou de la faiblesse d’un mineur pour le conduire à un acte ou une abstention préjudiciable, escroquerie."
Context reads:
"Abus frauduleux de l’ignorance ou de la faiblesse d’un mineur pour le conduire à un acte ou une abstention préjudiciable, escroquerie."
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Sep 24, 2014 18:30: Thomas T. Frost changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/1213228">Lara Barnett's</a> old entry - "Abus frauduleux de l’ignorance ou de la faiblesse"" to ""fraudulent abuse of ignorance or weakness""
Proposed translations
+3
18 mins
Thomas T. Frost
Portugal
Portugal
Native in English
Works in field
Portugal
‘Very good precision work’ – Comunica.dk
Native in: Danish (Variant: Standard (rigsdansk)) 
, English (Variants: British, UK)
Works in: Danish to English, English to Danish, French to Danish
Related KudoZ points
:
24
Selected
fraudulent abuse of ignorance or weakness
Part of this has already been debated on http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/law_general/5662... .
I would include "fraudulent" as that is what the original says.
I would include "fraudulent" as that is what the original says.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
1 hr
Undue influence taking fraudulent advantage of the ignorance or weakness
Again, maybe this would be viewed differently in UK law. Ignorance and/or weakness is presumed.
I would have expected some informed discussion of the differenced between duress in criminal law/UK PACE 1984 and undue influence.
I would have expected some informed discussion of the differenced between duress in criminal law/UK PACE 1984 and undue influence.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Thomas T. Frost
: Even if it is translated to English, we must presume the translated text is still based on French law unless otherwise informed. How much should legal terms be 'localised' in such a case?
33 mins
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| neutral |
B D Finch
: Though I prefer my own formulation, I think that "undue influence" is fine and does not unduly "localise" the text.
13 hrs
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-1
11 hrs
Financial crimes against the elderly and mentally ill
Hello
I've just seen this and the previous post and i'm a bit shocked by the suggestions if I may say so.
Firstly, if you type 'abuse' and 'mentally ill' into Google, nearly all of the articles will be about sexual abuse or ill-treatment.
Ok, we may not have an exact term in English for the French here but that is no reason to go off and translate the French too directly when it leads to such problems.
We still have expressions in common use in the courts and here is my suggestion.
I've just seen this and the previous post and i'm a bit shocked by the suggestions if I may say so.
Firstly, if you type 'abuse' and 'mentally ill' into Google, nearly all of the articles will be about sexual abuse or ill-treatment.
Ok, we may not have an exact term in English for the French here but that is no reason to go off and translate the French too directly when it leads to such problems.
We still have expressions in common use in the courts and here is my suggestion.
Reference:
http://www.popcenter.org/problems/crimes_against_elderly/
http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/advice/practice-notes/financial-abuse/
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
writeaway
: this suggestion is shocking because it's not found anywhere in the French. it's your own personal interpretation and that's all. /one can't wing it and swing it with legalese.
1 hr
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Fine. If you feel that you just have to find the 'same' words in English as in French, then go and do a machine translation mate!
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| neutral |
B D Finch
: As sexual abuse and other violence can hardly be "fraudulent", this does not seem to be a valid concern here. Note the context: "d’un mineur".
2 hrs
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| disagree |
Thomas T. Frost
: 'abus de faiblesse' is not limited to a target group of elderly and mentally ill. What about children for example? Fraud is not necessarily a financial crime; it can be something else.
3 hrs
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14 hrs
Fraudulently exerting undue influence, exploiting ignorance or weakness
books.google.co.uk/books?id=z6AtAQAAMAAJ
Luther Stearns Cushing, Charles Sumner, George Stillman Hillard - 1836 - Law
(Same) Importunity and undue influence may be fraudulently exerted, but they are not inseparably connected with fraud; nor is it every degree of importunity that ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability
Unconscionable conduct is also found in acts of fraud and deceit, where the .... further broken down into cases on duress, undue influence and exploitation of weakness. ...
Luther Stearns Cushing, Charles Sumner, George Stillman Hillard - 1836 - Law
(Same) Importunity and undue influence may be fraudulently exerted, but they are not inseparably connected with fraud; nor is it every degree of importunity that ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability
Unconscionable conduct is also found in acts of fraud and deceit, where the .... further broken down into cases on duress, undue influence and exploitation of weakness. ...
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