Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
troubles de la vie psychique
English translation:
psychological disorders/problems
Added to glossary by
Miranda Joubioux (X)
Dec 9, 2013 08:56
10 yrs ago
4 viewers *
French term
Miranda Joubioux (X)
troubles de la vie psychique
French to English
Medical
Psychology
target=uk
Much in the same vein as my last question:
La « maladie mentale » ne peut être définie que comme une forme typique d’évolution des troubles de la vie psychique.
I'm having doubts about how to translate this.
Much in the same vein as my last question:
La « maladie mentale » ne peut être définie que comme une forme typique d’évolution des troubles de la vie psychique.
I'm having doubts about how to translate this.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +5 | psychological disorders/problems |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
|
| 4 +1 | everyday life, psychological experience |
John Holland
|
| 3 | mental health disorders |
Lorraine Dubuc
|
Proposed translations
+5
24 mins
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native in English
Specializes in field
Psychologist, Court-certified legal
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
46
Selected
psychological disorders/problems
I'd prefer more context but very often where "troubles" is used in French, "disorder" is used in English.
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Note added at 28 mins (2013-12-09 09:24:35 GMT)
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La « maladie mentale » ne peut être définie que comme une forme typique d’évolution des troubles de la vie psychique.
"Mental illness" cannot be defined as a typical evolution of psychological disorders/problems alone.
I'd like more info on the type of author, publication and target reader.
French and UK notions on mental illness and health differ and it is important to know to what extent the Frenchness has to be retained.
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Note added at 36 mins (2013-12-09 09:33:17 GMT)
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Whilst my suggestion is a slight distance from John's approach, I may end up moving closer to his reading, but I really would prefer more context of the type indicated. "Disorder" is something used in the international classifications for example, but in general contexts aimed at the wider public and also at those concerned, "disorder" is not often that welcome. It is not always accepted as being politically correct. The French "troubles" is the term used in the official translations of the international classifications but also more widely and has the advantage of also having political correctness, which you would be safe with in choosing "problems", for example. However, if this is in reference to common terminology and those international classifications are in there somewhere, then then "problems" would be an under-translation.
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Note added at 38 mins (2013-12-09 09:35:15 GMT)
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I have kept the term "evolution" as it describes a situation which is ongoing, which may continue, which is open. If the meaning is a little more determined, then John's "outcome" may be suitable.
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Note added at 41 mins (2013-12-09 09:38:05 GMT)
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OK, if this is an international audience of psychiatrists, they'll all be thinking DSM-V, ICD-10 and so on. The French will still be thinking DSM-IV-TR as the official French version is not out yet. Or rathern they may not all be thinking DSM etc, but they will certainly all be familiar with its terms.
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Note added at 28 mins (2013-12-09 09:24:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
La « maladie mentale » ne peut être définie que comme une forme typique d’évolution des troubles de la vie psychique.
"Mental illness" cannot be defined as a typical evolution of psychological disorders/problems alone.
I'd like more info on the type of author, publication and target reader.
French and UK notions on mental illness and health differ and it is important to know to what extent the Frenchness has to be retained.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 36 mins (2013-12-09 09:33:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Whilst my suggestion is a slight distance from John's approach, I may end up moving closer to his reading, but I really would prefer more context of the type indicated. "Disorder" is something used in the international classifications for example, but in general contexts aimed at the wider public and also at those concerned, "disorder" is not often that welcome. It is not always accepted as being politically correct. The French "troubles" is the term used in the official translations of the international classifications but also more widely and has the advantage of also having political correctness, which you would be safe with in choosing "problems", for example. However, if this is in reference to common terminology and those international classifications are in there somewhere, then then "problems" would be an under-translation.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 38 mins (2013-12-09 09:35:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I have kept the term "evolution" as it describes a situation which is ongoing, which may continue, which is open. If the meaning is a little more determined, then John's "outcome" may be suitable.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 41 mins (2013-12-09 09:38:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
OK, if this is an international audience of psychiatrists, they'll all be thinking DSM-V, ICD-10 and so on. The French will still be thinking DSM-IV-TR as the official French version is not out yet. Or rathern they may not all be thinking DSM etc, but they will certainly all be familiar with its terms.
Note from asker:
| Sorry Nikki, but this is one in a list. It's a speech aimed at an international public of psychiatrists. Next time I get something like this, I'll give it to you. Not my cup of tea! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: agree with your reasoning. "problems" possibly safest for general public but "disorders could be used for this audience.
45 mins
|
| agree |
Carol Gullidge
: problems or disorders, but agree that 'problems' covers all eventualities
1 hr
|
| agree |
Helen Shiner
: For this audience, disorders is best, as you say.
2 hrs
|
| agree |
C. Tougas
3 hrs
|
| neutral |
Lorraine Dubuc
: can only be and not cannot : ne peuvent que
6 hrs
|
| agree |
Bertrand Leduc
9 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks Nikki - perfect for my context.
Thanks to everyone else for your comments and suggestions - all very helpful!"
+1
16 mins
everyday life, psychological experience
I agree that this is similar to the other question.
Because the author seems to be disagreeing with "medicalization," I think it is important not to use English medical terms when describing the subject of concern.
"Psychic" is something of a medical term, I believe. When it does not have the connotation of esoteric spirituality, its meaning is more medical or at least technical. "Psychological" actually seems a bit too much here, from my point of view.
I'd be inclined to try something like the following translation:
"Mental illness" cannot only be defined as one common outcome of the struggles of everyday life.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2013-12-09 11:12:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
For what it's worth, "everyday life" is a term that is not unknown to psychiatry. If is the title of a text by Freud, The Psychopathology of Everyday Life:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Psychopathology_of_Everyda...
Please also see for more references: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q="everyday life" psychiat...
In addition to the link from Psychiatric Times in my other answer, here is another article (full text) that might be helpful when thinking about the register and the topic overall:
"The Medicalization of the Human Condition" by Paul Chodoff, M.D.,
Published in Psychiatric Services in 2002
http://ps.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=180258
(For reference, here is the Psychiatric Times link again: http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/depression/psychiatry-and-my... )
Because the author seems to be disagreeing with "medicalization," I think it is important not to use English medical terms when describing the subject of concern.
"Psychic" is something of a medical term, I believe. When it does not have the connotation of esoteric spirituality, its meaning is more medical or at least technical. "Psychological" actually seems a bit too much here, from my point of view.
I'd be inclined to try something like the following translation:
"Mental illness" cannot only be defined as one common outcome of the struggles of everyday life.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2013-12-09 11:12:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
For what it's worth, "everyday life" is a term that is not unknown to psychiatry. If is the title of a text by Freud, The Psychopathology of Everyday Life:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Psychopathology_of_Everyda...
Please also see for more references: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q="everyday life" psychiat...
In addition to the link from Psychiatric Times in my other answer, here is another article (full text) that might be helpful when thinking about the register and the topic overall:
"The Medicalization of the Human Condition" by Paul Chodoff, M.D.,
Published in Psychiatric Services in 2002
http://ps.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=180258
(For reference, here is the Psychiatric Times link again: http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/depression/psychiatry-and-my... )
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: I like "struggles"
50 mins
|
|
Thanks, gallagy2
|
|
| neutral |
Melissa McMahon
: isn't it "can only be defined" rather than "cannot only"... to be honest I started wondering myself on the parsing, but it's a theme today...
1 hr
|
|
Thanks, Melissa. You of course are right that I made an error with the negation and it should read as you indicate. I was thinking more about the part of the sentence in question and the register.
|
|
| neutral |
writeaway
: you're ignoring the word troubles. I don't equate 'struggles' with the Fr. 'troubles'.
2 hrs
|
|
Thanks, writeaway. I deliberately gave a very non-medicalized rendering of the term. My main point is that the translator should not try to always use medical terms given that the subject is medicalization itself.
|
|
| neutral |
Lorraine Dubuc
: 'everyday life has little to do with the expression I think.
6 hrs
|
|
Thanks, Lorraine.
|
7 hrs
Lorraine Dubuc
Canada
Canada
Native in French
&
English
Specializes in field
Canada
Related KudoZ points
:
11
mental health disorders
Mental illness can only be defined as typically developing from mental health disorders (or psychological disorders)
Mental illness can only be defined as a typical evolution of mental health disorders (or psychological disorders)
'ne peuvent que'
Mental illness can only be defined as a typical evolution of mental health disorders (or psychological disorders)
'ne peuvent que'
Discussion
(shame there isn't an automatic feature for this!)