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Registrierung am Phantom
Austrittspupillenlängsabstand
Oct 16, 2013 21:07
10 yrs ago
German term

Erster Offizier

German to English Other Military / Defense First World War Austrian rank - army
Could someone please verify what the correct translation for this rank would be specific to the army in 1915 - presumably the Austro-Hungarian army in this case (although this is not overtly stated)?

I am translating something about the artist, Herbert Boeckl, 1894-1966. The text states:

Im Mai 1915 wurde Herbert Boeckl zur Artillerie an der italienischen Front bei Malborghet im Kanaltal als Beobachtungsoffizier eingezogen, später war er als Erster Offizier stationiert.

The artist was born in Klagenfurt and died in Vienna, hence my presumption that this is the Austro-Hungarian army.

Surrounding text discusses his art, so gives no further clue in relation to the above.

This table does not list the rank. Is the table wrong, or is the text perhaps inaccurate, or what, please?

http://www.overthefront.com/WWI-Ranks-Austro-Hungarian.php

The above passage is from Agnes Husslein-Arco, Herbert Boeckl, Belvedere, Wien, 2009, which is quoted in the text I am translating.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 adjutant
4 +3 Executive Officer
3 +3 chief/first officer

Discussion

Helen Shiner (asker) Oct 17, 2013:
A general thanks to all I would though like to thank everyone for the discussion brought about by this question. I appreciate your help and interest.
Helen Shiner (asker) Oct 17, 2013:
Adjutant I have now spoken to a high-ranking military person, who also suggests that adjutant would be the way to go, with forward observation officer for Beobachtungsoffizier. So.....I would like to invite the person who first suggested this to me (Andrew Swift) to please post this as an answer, so that I can close the question without having to go for the unsatisfactory 'answer found elsewhere' option.
Ramey Rieger (X) Oct 17, 2013:
First officer is also the assistant to a higher-ranking officer. I think, considering the era, that adjutant is most likely the correct translation.
Yorkshireman Oct 17, 2013:
Not adjutant An adjutant assists a higher ranking officer - in the civilian world, an adjutant would be a personal assistant - or even a secretary.
Ramey Rieger (X) Oct 17, 2013:
Adjutant yes.
Helen Shiner (asker) Oct 16, 2013:
Adjutant I have had someone contact me privately to suggest 'adjutant': http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/adjutant - I agree that this may well be the best option.
Helen Shiner (asker) Oct 16, 2013:
Hi Yorkshire See the link I've posted to Jochen's answer. Seems to confirm, so I will go with that.
Yorkshireman Oct 16, 2013:
Ranks of th K.u.K Armies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_ranks_and_insignia_of_the_... - as you can see, no Erste Offizier or First Officer. It is, as Jochen says, a position in the line of command.

It states that Boeckl was an artillery observation officer on the Italian front, and that he was later stationed - administrative posting - as an Erste Offizier - i.e. Executive Officer in the line of command
Helen Shiner (asker) Oct 16, 2013:
Thanks Ramey My comment was in response to your entry re the navy, but thanks for your further comments; that's interesting.
Ramey Rieger (X) Oct 16, 2013:
Yes, that it is not the navy is clear (I'm not THAT tired). But in my research for a military novel, I came across several German/Austrian/Swiss ranks that were interchangeable. I'll skip the coffee and just go to bed. I'm going to post chief/first officer and see what the public at large thinks. If it's totally wrong, there will be no hesitation to make that clear to me. Good night Helen, and good luck.
Helen Shiner (asker) Oct 16, 2013:
@Ramey Think we both need more coffee! But in my case, that would be dangerous near to bedtime, so I'll use matchsticks instead....
Helen Shiner (asker) Oct 16, 2013:
Hi Ramey because this is the Austrian army, not the German one, or the navy of either country.
Ramey Rieger (X) Oct 16, 2013:
Yes chief officer - at least there are dictionaries to back it up. and why do you assume that it is clearly not appropriate here?
Helen Shiner (asker) Oct 16, 2013:
@phil That would be my instinct, but didn't want to talk nonsense (if it were)!
philgoddard Oct 16, 2013:
I'd go for chief officer or first officer. There's no definitive answer to questions like these, whereas modern armed forces often do have exact equivalents in different languages.
Ramey Rieger (X) Oct 16, 2013:
Here at the bottom of the page, the officers and ranks of the World War I in both languages. I did not find Erster Offizier, but maybe I'm just too tired. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Army_(German_Empire)
Helen Shiner (asker) Oct 16, 2013:
Thanks, Ramey Yes, I've seen that, but it is clearly not appropriate here and I need to be more specific than just 'officer'.
Ramey Rieger (X) Oct 16, 2013:
According to Wikipedia he was simply an officer. Dict. translates Erster Offizier as chief officer or first mate in the navy. http://www.dict.cc/?s=Erster Offizier
Helen Shiner (asker) Oct 16, 2013:
Thanks LegalTrans D - yes, should have checked that, but thanks for confirming.
LegalTrans D Oct 16, 2013:
It was the Austro-Hungarian army, Helen; nobody else was fighting in the Kanaltal in WW1

Proposed translations

+1
1 day 1 hr
Selected

adjutant

By request:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/adjutant
ad·ju·tant [aj-uh-tuhnt] noun
1. Military. a staff officer who assists the commanding officer in issuing orders.
2. British Military. an executive officer.



Note from asker:
Thanks, Andrew for this.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Yorkshireman : Boeckl, as an officer in the line of command, could have had an adjutant, too. An adjutant has an administrative function, and may well be of a lower rank than the next officer in the line of command. @Ramey Don’t "shout" not at me - I never said he was
9 hrs
agree Ramey Rieger (X) : I believe this is the correct translation, Sir Andrew, yes sir, I do. @Yorkshireman - a first officer is NOT a commanding officer, but the next in line of command. There CAN be more than one of them in a general's staff.
10 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to all who contributed. Very interesting discussion."
+3
15 mins

Executive Officer

This is not a rank but a position in the line of command: the deputy of a unit's commanding officer. Today the German term is mostly used in a naval context or in aviation, but it may also apply to land-based units.
Note from asker:
This reference seems to confirm your answer, albeit from an earlier period in the army's history (though I doubt that matters in this case): http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/organization/Austria/ArmyStudy/c_AustrianArmyDictionary.html Thanks very much for your help.
The relevant passage from the above link: (see also Unterlieutenant - Oberlieutenant) Anciently it was not a rank but a provisional Charge. From the Latin Locus (Fr. Lieu) Tenentis (keeping the place of) it indicated a vice-(someone), a provisional commander who had the command bringing the place of the ordered Commander. In fact there were also Colonels, Generals and Field Marshals Lieutenants. This word became a rank during the Lansquenets period. In the middle of those companies (Fähnlein), ready to substitute the Landsknechte Hauptmann, whenever necessary, stood the Stellvertreter der Hauptleute (deputies of the higher officer, the Captain), since then called Lieutenants. He was the executive officer of the company (like the Feldwebel in more administrative matters and like the Obristwachtmeistern in the regimental Staff), directly subordinating to the captain. Every day he had to inspect the company, to execute the training (or to demand this to the Feldwebel) and to control the company tasks’ distribution among the NCOs. He had also to watch rigorously to avoid desertions. Being the captain-deputy (Hauptmanns-Stellvertreter) he often had provisional company commands and when he had to lead a Staff company, assumed the denomination of Capitain-Lieutenant.
Obviously, the EN is not great but the information makes up for it!
Peer comment(s):
agree Yorkshireman : Used in civil aviation and on merchant ships as a rank, First Officer is second in command after the Captain, usually the co-pilot or Chief Mate. Military: the Commanding Officer is the boss and the Executive Officer is the one who passes on the orders
47 mins
Thank you
agree Kevin Fulton : This is probably correct. Exec isn't a rank, but rather a functional position.
15 hrs
Thank you
agree Kirsten Bodart : I would be inclined to think so too. The desciptions in German of Erster Offizier certainly say that he is second in command. First Officer is only used in the navy as far as I can (quickly) see.
21 hrs
Something went wrong...
+3
1 hr

chief/first officer

discussion entries, etc.
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard
5 hrs
thanks Phil!
agree milinad
7 hrs
Thank you Milinad!
agree David Moore (X) : I'm inclined to think he may have been the senior officer, but I agree with 'first officer', anyway.
10 hrs
Thanks David!
Something went wrong...
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