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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

soupe de roche émulsionné

English translation:

Mediterranean style fish soup

Added to glossary by Mark Nathan
Oct 6, 2013 17:36
10 yrs ago
6 viewers *
French term

soupe de roche émulsionné

French to English Other Cooking / Culinary Belgian menu
aigre de ligne à la plancha, ragout de supions aux olives, sur une soupe de roche émulsionné
Proposed translations (English)
3 +5 Mediterranean style fish soup
3 Thick rockfish soup
3 seafood soup
3 (rock) fish(es) soup foam / espuma
References
Poisson de roche
Change log

Oct 9, 2013 12:16: Mark Nathan Created KOG entry

Discussion

Howard Sugar Oct 6, 2013:
http://www.lemasdepierre.com/maj/pdf/restaurant/Carte_du_Bis... from another restaurant using reef fish as the translation
Howard Sugar Oct 6, 2013:
http://linaratravel.com/images/pageSpecific/seychelles_lemur... This is a seafood menu using reef fish
Howard Sugar Oct 6, 2013:
This is what they mean http://marina-faitmaison.blogspot.it/2009/12/soupe-de-poisso...
Ben Karl Oct 6, 2013:
@ Howard Sugar Are you able to suggest a term based on your understanding that "roche" means "reef," and/or reference material to support it?
Howard Sugar Oct 6, 2013:
The idea here is not the word roche as rock but reef, hence reef fish being crustaceans - shrimp, mussels, scampi etc all togeter as well as small bony fish similar to Bouillabaisse which have been emulsified
Ben Karl Oct 6, 2013:
@Everyone I agree this will be a challenging one to answer, due to the nature of menu translation. Without seeing the food (or at least a picture) or knowing that the main ingredients are (rockfish, other fish, a combination of them), we will all essentially be guessing.
SafeTex Oct 6, 2013:
@all Hello
We are gonna have problems with this question. We seem to have conflicting references as Oliver has now produced one too. At the same time, I don't like 'seafood' which is often shell fish as opposed to fish. Bye everyone
SafeTex Oct 6, 2013:
Hello I just posted a reference and then saw Oliver's idea. I've had a look and have found 3 words for 'rockfish' in French in dictionaries but none of them were 'poisson de roche'. So I'm not saying it is wrong but a reference is needed that confirms Oliver's answer.

Proposed translations

+5
1 hr
Selected

Mediterranean style fish soup

Is what I usually say in relation to poisson de roche.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-10-06 19:37:45 GMT)
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If it was not an emulsion and had bits of fish in it, then it would be bouillabaisse.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-10-06 19:38:23 GMT)
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The emulsification takes place in a blender.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-10-06 19:38:49 GMT)
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The emulsificaion takes place in a blender.
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : 'emulsioning' can take many forms (French dressing is an example of an emulsion) but I think this would be a suitably appetizing version to put on a menu
2 hrs
thanks Tony!
agree Ben Karl : “Emulsification" is not a synonym for blending and would not take place in a blender, however. If it were blended, it would be a bisque. I think this translation makes the item sound sufficiently appetizing.
7 hrs
I am not suggesting that blending is a synonym for emulsification. But you can emulsify oil and water in a blender, if only temporarily.
agree Dr Lofthouse
12 hrs
thanks
agree B D Finch : Mediterranean-style, with a hyphen.
13 hrs
thanks
agree Verginia Ophof
22 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to all for your clarifications."
23 mins

Thick rockfish soup

It should have said "sur une soupe de poisson de roche émulsionnée;and you don't used 'emulsified' on menus, only in the kitchen where they're made, usually;

http://www.restocours.net/Bac2/Cuisine/soupe poisson.pdf

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Note added at 30 mins (2013-10-06 18:06:40 GMT)
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Le ciuppin Sestri Levante est un ragoût de poisson de roche avec du vin blanc et légumes, le même plat, avec l'ajout d'anchois est appelé bagnun à Riva Trigoso, [...]
liguria.italiaguida.it

The ciuppin Sestri Levante is a stew of rock fish with white wine and vegetables, the same dish, with the addition of anchovies is called bagnun in Riva Trigoso, [...]
liguria.italiaguida.it

Décharger le libre de recettes du I Concour de Cuisine Populaire de Poisson de Roche de Begur (seulement en catalan) - 2.36 MB
begur.org

Download the Recipes book of the I Local Cuisine Begur Rockfish contest (only in Catalan) - 2.36 MB
begur.org

1963 : Première mise en conserve sur le Marché Français de la Soupe de Poisson de Roche à la Sétoise selon la recette traditionnelle sétoise.
azais-polito.fr

1963: First canning on the French Market of the Rockfish Soup à la Sétoise according to the traditional Sétoise recipe
Peer comment(s):
neutral SafeTex : see discussion please
2 mins
See my note added please;
neutral Ben Karl : "rockfish" or "scorpionfish" (of the family Scorpaenidae) is "rascasse" in French, which may or may not be an ingredient in "soupe de poissons de roche."
13 mins
Fair comment;
neutral Tony M : And sadly, 'émulsionné' suggests anything but "thick" / Yes, but not thick in the EN sense of a 'thick soup' — possibly 'creamy' or some other such appealing word.
3 hrs
As a general rule, the emulsifying agents produce a greater "thickness" when mixed than the agents do singly and separately ;//I still think they may mean a traditional Marseille style bouillabaisse:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouillabaisse
Something went wrong...
29 mins

seafood soup

It sounds a lot less romantic in English, but "soupe de roche" is just a kind of seafood soup (made with "poissons de roche") that includes scorpion fish, squid, shellfish, etc (see recipe below).

Emulsionée (this should be feminine since both 'soupe' and 'roche' are feminine) simply means emulsified, i.e. the fats from the oil and the fish are made so that they won't separate from the water-based broth. This might be done by adding egg yolk or lecithin to the soup. However, in my opinion, "emulsified seafood soup" sounds horribly unappetizing. Thus, I would leave it out.


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Note added at 49 mins (2013-10-06 18:25:44 GMT)
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My understanding is that "soupe de poissons de roche" *is* a soupe de poissons et de fruits de mer, i.e. "les poissons qui se trouvent sur et autour des roches et non les poissons de grands fonds." The recipes for the soup that have been posted include many fish other than rockfish/scorpionfish. Without knowing precisely what fish the chef is using, it will be difficult to find the perfect translation. This is one of the most challenging aspects of menu translation. I would prefer a more general term to a specific one, since one is less likely to be wrong (a rockfish soup is always a seafood soup, but a seafood soup is not always a rockfish soup).
Reference:

http://www.recette-1.com/soupe/soupe-de-roche.html

Peer comment(s):
neutral Andrew Bramhall : That's why I said 'thick' or thickened' for emulsionner; I noted the missing 'e' too; and your suggestion would more likely be 'soupe de poisson et fruits de mer';
2 mins
Soups are thickened with cream, butter, flour, cornstarch, or other thickening agent. Emulsifying something does not necessarily make it thicker, it merely binds the fats and keeps them from separating. "Poisson de roche" does not mean "rock fish," either
neutral Tony M : I agree with some of your comments, but I think this would rather 'undersell' the item on a menu.
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
15 hrs

(rock) fish(es) soup foam / espuma

Je m'imagine que la soupe de poissons est d'abord passée au mixer et ensuite au syphon comme dans la recette ici :

"Ajoutez la crème fraîche à la soupe et mixez le tout jusqu'à obtenir une soupe fine. Poivrez, salez, ajoutez le reste de champagne et émulsionnez à l'aide d'un mixeur plongeur.
4 Dressez le tartare de saumon à l'aide d'un emporte-pièce. Mettre la soupe de champagne dans un siphon et faire des mousses autour du tartare.
Finir en plantant un brin de ciboulette dans chaque mousse et parsemez quelques brins sur le dessus."

Read more at http://www.750g.com/tartare-de-saumon-et-son-emulsion-de-sou...

D'ailleurs, normalement on passe les poissons de roche cuits au tamis pour en faire une base sans arêtes.

La soupe passée au syphon (émulsionnée), on peut la dresser pour présenter le reste du plat.

Au sujet de seafood / reef fish, j'ai lu quelque part que la soupe de poissons du pauvre est surtout composée de ce qu'on trouve sur la plage (donc seafood surtout).

Voir menu du Bistro cité par Benjamin pour novembre 2012
http://www.lemasdepierre.com/maj/pdf/restaurant/Carte_du_Bis...

"Poisson de roche
Selon arrivage au parfum de citron confit, pomme fondante,
émulsion d’une soupe de poisson
Local Fish Filet lemon flavoured, fondant potato, seasonal vegetables and rocks fish soup foam"

- ou alors la soupe est tout simplement passée au mixer et au chinois (sans syphon) comme ici :
http://madame.lefigaro.fr/recettes/emulsion-de-petits-pois-r...

(mais alors je vois mal comment présenter le ragoût de poissons dans la même assiette)

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rockfish


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Note added at 15 hrs (2013-10-07 09:00:11 GMT)
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Sorry, link to Mas de pierre was Howard's
Reference:

http://www.britishlarder.co.uk/how-to-make-culinary-foams-air-and-espumas/#axzz2h1VPC3oA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSiFjRqZywA

Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : In EN, we can't say 'rock fishes' in the plural like that, and if not, it brings it back to the problem that this isn't 'rockfish'; the fact it's an emulsion doesn't necessarily mean it's an espuma; I'd be surprised they'd fail to say so if it were.
4 hrs
OK! But I still feel there is more to it than a mediterranean fish chowder or soup!
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

23 mins
Reference:

Poisson de roche

This is possibly the explanation for the word 'roche'. See reference
Reference:

http://www.marmiton.org/recettes/recette_soupe-de-petits-poissons-de-roche-mediterranee_60228.aspx

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Tony M
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
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