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Glossary entry

Dutch term or phrase:

hinderen

English translation:

We are not pretending / It is true we don't

Added to glossary by Barend van Zadelhoff
Jul 28, 2013 15:54
10 yrs ago
Dutch term

hinderen

Dutch to English Bus/Financial Business/Commerce (general) Collaboration Proposal
"Niet gehinderd door uitputtende strategische kennis van uw organisatie, maar zeer enthousiast over [company name] en eventuele mogelijkheden, sturen wij u met veel plezier een samenwerkingsvoorstel toe."
This seems to be a strange thing to say in this context. Does it really mean "unimpeded by"?
The possible options I have thought of are either:
1. "Rather than being hindered by your organisation's exhaustive strategic knowledge, we are very enthusiastic about [company name] and the potential opportunities, we are therefore very pleased to be able to send you a proposal for the collaboration."
OR
2. Unimpeded by your organisation's exhaustive strategic knowledge, we are very enthusiastic about [company name] and the potential opportunities, we are therefore very pleased to be able to send you a proposal for the collaboration."

Have I understood the meaning properly however? I would love your opinions on this as it seems a strange thing to say to a company from whom you wish to receive funding and with whom you are hoping to work. In what way might this be an impediment?
I don't know if it is relevant but this is a letter from a small charitable organization to a relatively large company as a follow up to an initial meeting regarding securing funding.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +5 We are not pretending / It is true, we don't
3 +2 Although we don't have in-depth knowledge
4 burden
3 bothered
Change log

Aug 11, 2013 11:43: Barend van Zadelhoff Created KOG entry

Discussion

Kitty Brussaard Jul 29, 2013:
@Moira I totally agree with you. I guess that sometimes we just have to protect clients from repeating their linguistic/stylistic errors in other languages as well :-)
MoiraB Jul 29, 2013:
amazing how much one can read into such a little phrase! Seems to me that given its ironic/sarcastic/attempt-at-humour connotations, it's a poor choice of words in Dutch - given this specific context. And you could argue that a similar letter in English might not take such an approach. Some people might say you can only translate what you're given but I recently did a leaflet for a hospital seeking donations from the public and practically had to rewrite it, given that the language/phrasing used would simply not have worked for the target English-speaking audience, i.e. it wouldn't have incited people to fork out any cash. So I say, translate for your target audience - if your end client is OK with that ;-)
Barend van Zadelhoff Jul 29, 2013:
You need to judge things in the context of their proposal/a proposal.
Organisations want to work with charities that fall into line with their corporate image and related strategy, or the other way round.
All that is relevant at this stage of the process is whether this company can use them.
Also, there is no reason for them to have extensive knowlegde of this company's strategy, that's not really relevant to them, the only thing that's relevant to them in this respect, and what they hope for, is that this company can use them one way or the other within it's strategy.

By phrasing things this way they make it easier for the organisation to decline, this organisation can say, for example, we think highly of you but unfortunately we have other strategic priorities at this point in time.

If you still don't get my point, I can't make it clearer than this.
Natasha Ziada (X) Jul 29, 2013:
@Barend I don't know where you get the notion of 'conforming/suitability' from? Seems to me they're just stating they don't have much strategic knowledge of this company. Why and how, that's not apparent from the context we have.

Also, I don't know about the implication the funding organisation should not feel embarrassed about declining the collaboration. That is not something I gather from this phrasing.
Barend van Zadelhoff Jul 29, 2013:
As far as I can see from the context, they want to collaborate with this company and possibly get funding in connection with it.

What they don't know/what they are not sure about is whether their charitable organization conforms to this organization's strategy, they need to be suitable for being part of it.

What they are implicitly saying is, call it modesty, and it is a form of modesty, you can also call it discretion or diplomacy:
it can happen of course we do not fall into line with your strategy: "Niet gehinderd door uitputtende strategische kennis van uw organisatie (ironic overstatement, or understatement, dependent on how you look upon it)" but we certainly are very enthusiastic ...

by implying this, the organisation they want to work with doesn't need to feel embarressed about needing to decline this proposal/or not being interested in working with a CHARITABLE organization

we admit/realize we don't know about your organisation's strategy, it may be possible we don't fit the bill, but certainly we are enthusiastic about ...

as another phrasing of my reading

Well, this is how I read it meanwhile, in case this still wasn't completely clear :-)
Lianne van de Ven Jul 29, 2013:
Go back to client I would go back to the client. It is unclear what they exactly mean with "niet gehinderd door". It could be along the lines of what Moira describes, or expressing modesty, as Barend suggests, or "burden", which is what I thought. That's plenty of doubt, although you probably have a bit more context than we do.
Natasha Ziada (X) Jul 29, 2013:
Intentional or not? This is indeed a curious way of expressing oneself when asking for funding. Makes me think they didn't intentionally use this expression, that as has been mentioned is normally used ironically/sarcastically. As Barend suggested they may have been wanting to express modesty.

Because of its ambiguity I would probably steer clear from literal or ironical translations. I like Moira's suggestion.
Barend van Zadelhoff Jul 28, 2013:
I am cleaning my kitchen and this involves the risk that my thoughts keep proceeding more or less automatically after having payed attention to something

more specifically, this risk is that I now thought of still another slightly different underlying message expressed through the ironical phrasing, like:

It is true, we are not sure whether our proposal (possible collaboration) goes together with your organisation's strategy (we don't know enough about it), but ..

'Maybe you can't use us but ..'
Barend van Zadelhoff Jul 28, 2013:
perhaps also interesting to know What is this about in this context?

the underlying message is one of modesty expressed through the ironical phrasing, like:

We are not pretending we know all the ins and outs of your organisation's strategy, but we do feel a genuine enthusiasm about ...

the modesty is

- we realize we can know more (and we would like to know more) about your organization's strategy but
- we realize our lack of knowledge of your organization's strategy but
Barend van Zadelhoff Jul 28, 2013:
forget to mention a well-known expression in Dutch is for example:

niet gehinderd door kennis van zaken (know your facts)

clearly ironical example:

We hebben er over doorgepraat en ik (niet gehinderd door enige kennis van zaken of zakelijke betrokkenheid) hielp hem op het idee te komen het bedrijf over te doen aan wat hij noemde “zijn mensen”.

http://www.kennisenvangulik.nl/page4.html
Suzi Griffiths (asker) Jul 28, 2013:
Thank you Moira, you are right, I had misinterpreted this phrase and so was completely on the wrong track. Thank you so much, it makes much more sense now!
Barend van Zadelhoff Jul 28, 2013:
@ Moira well, the speaker uses irony, so they take the risk of being 'punished' for this 'light-hearted' tone
many companies can appreciate casualness, at least translation agencies :-)

you are right as far as your interpretation is concerned:

we may not yet have extensive strategic knowledge of your organisation

'be myopic' - 'have no good understanding/no extensive knowledge/or something' (when it comes to your organisation's strategy)

myopic -
- lacking tolerance or understanding
- not make intelligent, proper or careful judgments
etc.
MoiraB Jul 28, 2013:
knowledge I think you may have misinterpreted whose knowledge we're talking about here - for me it means strategic knowledge of (i.e. about) your organisation ("our knowledge" is implicit in Barend's "your organisation's strategy"). Might help you make more sense of it. I think the idea is we may not yet have extensive strategic knowledge of your organisation, but we are very enthusiastic/excited about the prospect of working with you. We are therefore delighted to enclose a collaboration proposal for your perusal. Something along those lines. You need either a semi-colon or a full stop between the two bits. I'd avoid irony - they're after cash, after all!
Barend van Zadelhoff Jul 28, 2013:
ironical I would say it's no problem when the irony is clear from the phrasing

for example

Conveniently myopic when it comes to your organisation's strategy, but very enthusiastic when it comes to your ...
Henk Sanderson Jul 28, 2013:
een soms zeer cynische opmerking: In deze website wordt een goed overzicht gegeven van het gebruik van deze uitdrukking. Het blijkt dat hij oorspronkelijk zeer cynisch bedoeld was, maar ondertussen ook een meer positieve lading heeft. http://www.winebusiness.nl/index.php?option=com_content&view...

Proposed translations

+5
5 hrs
Dutch term (edited): niet gehinderd door
Selected

We are not pretending / It is true, we don't

If we leave out the irony but not the overstatement (possibly they don't know anything about it).

We are not pretending we know all the ins and outs of your organisation's strategy (underlying message: perhaps we are not in line with it). However, this doesn't alter the fact that we are very enthusiastic about ...

It's true, we don't know the score of your organisation's strategy (underlying message: perhaps we are not in line with it). However, this doesn't alter the fact that we are very enthusiastic about ...

I think the underlying message is (see discussion):

'there's always a possibility you can't use is, however this doesn't alter the fact that we are very enthusiastic about

For why would they need to know about the strategy of the organisation in this context?

by starting like this they give the organization an excuse to decline (not consistent with our strategy) while they can keep thinking about themselves, if this happens, as competent (for example)


Peer comment(s):
agree MoiraB : yes, this is how I would interpret it (as per discussion). No comma after true needed IMO. Or: While it is true /to say/ that...we are very enthusiastic...
8 hrs
Thank you so much, Moira, for considering and your comments.
agree W Schouten
10 hrs
Thank you, W.
agree Kitty Brussaard
12 hrs
Thank you, Kitty.
agree Verginia Ophof
18 hrs
Thank you, Verginia.
agree FionaT : And with MoiraB's comments
1 day 15 hrs
Dank je, Fiona.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
2 hrs

bothered

imo it's not a burden but then again I won't be bothered!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 uren (2013-07-28 18:29:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

plain and simple!
Something went wrong...
56 mins

burden

Not burdened by.... comes to my mind.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 58 mins (2013-07-28 16:52:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ps: I don't think this is irony, I think they mean it seriously and positively, rather matter-of-factly.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2013-07-28 20:28:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ps 2: Suzi, I think they don't mean "but", rather "and": Not burdened by (...), and enthusiastic about (...).


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2013-07-28 20:35:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ps 3: The original phrase is "niet gehinderd door enige kennis van zaken", which is rather sarcastic.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Barend van Zadelhoff : if 'not burdened' is not meant 'ironical', then what do you want to imply by it when you want to present yourself as an interesting party for collaboration? // We are not burdened by extensive knowledge (no irony) BUT we are very enthusiastic ??
9 mins
They are outsiders. They don't have any internal information. A burden is what you put on someone else's shoulders to carry and take into account. They don't carry this burden. E.g. The White Man's Burden.
Something went wrong...
+2
23 hrs

Although we don't have in-depth knowledge

I agree that it is a poor choice of words in Dutch because the meaning is left up in the air. In English I would keep it neutral:
"although we don't have in-depth knowledge of your organisation's strategies, we are nevertheless enthusiastic..."
Peer comment(s):
agree MoiraB : yep, sounds good
8 mins
agree Natasha Ziada (X) : Yes, this is how I would tackle it
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
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