Jun 4, 2013 14:46
10 yrs ago
French term
carder les coussins
French to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
Still with the Theseus legend.
The adolescent Phaedra will eventually marry the much older hero Theseus. But, at present, he loves her elder sister, Ariadne, to whom he says about Phaedra:
"La nuit, à travers la mince cloison de bois, je l'entends gémir en proie à je ne sais quels songes.
Elle doit carder les coussins, comme une jeune panthère."
It doesn't seem to be a standard phrase. Maybe it's related to "Carder ses matelas: S'étendre souvent sur ses matelas (et ainsi en carder souvent la laine) en menant une vie de débauche."?
All suggestions gratefully received.
TIA.
The adolescent Phaedra will eventually marry the much older hero Theseus. But, at present, he loves her elder sister, Ariadne, to whom he says about Phaedra:
"La nuit, à travers la mince cloison de bois, je l'entends gémir en proie à je ne sais quels songes.
Elle doit carder les coussins, comme une jeune panthère."
It doesn't seem to be a standard phrase. Maybe it's related to "Carder ses matelas: S'étendre souvent sur ses matelas (et ainsi en carder souvent la laine) en menant une vie de débauche."?
All suggestions gratefully received.
TIA.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +2 | clawing the cushions |
Paul Hirsh
|
| 3 | teasel/raise the nap of cushions |
Catharine Cellier-Smart
|
| 3 | roughing the cushions |
Nicholas Andrew Courtney
|
Proposed translations
+2
1 hr
Paul Hirsh
France
France
Native in English
Specializes in field
France
The Human Translator
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, Russian to English, Spanish to English, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
44
Selected
clawing the cushions
what a panther might do
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
mill2
17 hrs
|
|
thanks!
|
|
| agree |
Rachel Fell
: I prefer "clawing at the cushions"
20 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks Paul. I think that's the image OK."
23 mins
Catharine Cellier-Smart
Reunion
Reunion
Native in English
Works in field
Reunion
The Smart Solution
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: French to English, Creoles & Pidgins (French-based Other) to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
teasel/raise the nap of cushions
"Carder un coussin" is to teasel or raise the nap of material (such as that covering a cushion); teasel is both the verb and the name of the plant that was used to do this.
I'm not quite sure what the groaning sounds and young panther has to do with it - maybe the idea is that a (young) panther would do this using their claws? As the teasel is spiky maybe it would hurt if not used properly?
"The Fuller's Teasel (the cultivar group Dipsacus fullonum Sativus Group; syn. D. sativus) was formerly widely used in textile processing, providing a natural comb for cleaning, aligning and raising the nap on fabrics, particularly wool."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipsacus
"In the finishing process of manufacturing textiles, after the cloth is woven, it goes through processes such as washing, fulling, raising the nap, and trimming the nap. After the nap is trimmed, the fabric is considered finished. The raising process, which draws out the ends of the fibres, is done on both woollen and cotton fabric.[4] Flannelette is a cotton fabric that goes through this process. There are ways to 'raise the nap', most of which involve wire brushes such as raising cards. Originally, dried teasel pods were used[5] and were still preferred for use on woollen cloth for a long time."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nap_(textile)
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Note added at 35 mins (2013-06-04 15:22:12 GMT)
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Tony's suggestion of clawing at the cushions is a good image of what's being suggested.
I'm not quite sure what the groaning sounds and young panther has to do with it - maybe the idea is that a (young) panther would do this using their claws? As the teasel is spiky maybe it would hurt if not used properly?
"The Fuller's Teasel (the cultivar group Dipsacus fullonum Sativus Group; syn. D. sativus) was formerly widely used in textile processing, providing a natural comb for cleaning, aligning and raising the nap on fabrics, particularly wool."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipsacus
"In the finishing process of manufacturing textiles, after the cloth is woven, it goes through processes such as washing, fulling, raising the nap, and trimming the nap. After the nap is trimmed, the fabric is considered finished. The raising process, which draws out the ends of the fibres, is done on both woollen and cotton fabric.[4] Flannelette is a cotton fabric that goes through this process. There are ways to 'raise the nap', most of which involve wire brushes such as raising cards. Originally, dried teasel pods were used[5] and were still preferred for use on woollen cloth for a long time."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nap_(textile)
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Note added at 35 mins (2013-06-04 15:22:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Tony's suggestion of clawing at the cushions is a good image of what's being suggested.
Note from asker:
| Thanks Catharine. That's certainly the correct literal meaning and I think the image of clawing is what what has to be conveyed. One of the OED senses of "to card" is close "To scratch or tear the flesh with a wool-card or similar instrument, as a method of torture." |
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Tony M
: Surely this is far too literal and completely misses the whole point of the delightfully coy imagery of the original. / I really couldn't imagine that DL had missed the literal meaning.
3 mins
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I was just about to add a note saying this is obviously a literal explanation. Once the asker has the literal explanation of what is meant (which I don't think he had), up to him to decide how fanciful he wants to be in his translation.
|
|
| agree |
Carol Gullidge
: I don't disagree with what Tony says, but I DO think the most helpful answer (especially with literary texts) is often the one that first provides an insight into the text rather than a pithy answer that leaves the Asker with no need to devise his own
1 hr
|
|
Thank you Carol!
|
14 hrs
Nicholas Andrew Courtney
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
Bicultural Teacher/Translator (TRADOS)
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, Simple English
roughing the cushions
As a more general alternative to clawing
Note from asker:
| Thanks Andrew. I'm going to stick with the image of the panther's claws. |
Discussion
Thanks again,
Donal.
Watch out - I'll be looking for sexual innuendo in all of your questions from now on - whatever the subject matter!
However, giving our colleague DL credit for having done his basic research before posting, when he wrote "It doesn't seem to be a standard phrase..." I assumed that meant 'isn't a commonly-used metaphor', since his other comments make it pretty clear he had understood the literal sense, but was simply puzzled as to how it could apply in this apparently more figurative use.
Have a lovely day!
DL saying "It doesn't seem to be a standard phrase ... All suggestions gratefully received" led me to believe he did not know the literal meaning.
Added to that is the fact that this is obviously following on from previous questions on the same theme, none of which I had seen, making the Asker's level of understanding and general tone of the document more difficult to grasp.
I still feel you're probably on the right lines with the 'rumpling the sheets' idea — especially as they writer also uses 'gémir' and 'proie'. I feel sure some sexual innuendo is intended, and I imagine he may be suggesting that the young Phædra already has a (presumably younger) lover.