Nov 22, 2012 13:15
11 yrs ago
French term
charges (see here)
French to English
Social Sciences
History
Middle Ages
Hello. I'm looking for help with this term in the following context:
"Elle a mené à une appropriation des communautés monastiques, qui est devenue inévitable suite à la fin du système carolingien de redistribution des richesses (butins, fiscs) et des honneurs (charges comtales, épiscopales et abbatiales)."
TIA.
"Elle a mené à une appropriation des communautés monastiques, qui est devenue inévitable suite à la fin du système carolingien de redistribution des richesses (butins, fiscs) et des honneurs (charges comtales, épiscopales et abbatiales)."
TIA.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +5 | offices |
pettiefleur
|
| 3 +3 | office |
Jocelyne Cuenin
|
| 4 | Fees |
Josephine Cassar
|
| 3 | duties |
Ronald van Riet
|
| 3 | [reword it] |
Wolf Draeger
|
Proposed translations
+5
20 mins
pettiefleur
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in French
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Accurate, reliable and fast
Native in: French
Works in: English to French, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
offices
The Carolingians distributed offices as a way of administrating the country and keeping powerful nobles in check
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks a lot, this is the option I chose."
6 mins
Ronald van Riet
Native in English
Works in field
technical translator to English & Dutch
Native in: Dutch (Variant: Netherlands) 
, English (Variants: British, UK, US)
Works in: English to Dutch, Dutch to English, German to Dutch, and 1 more.
duties
as in taxes etc.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Jim Tucker (X)
: the other sense of "duty" would be closer to the mark I think
4 hrs
|
14 mins
Josephine Cassar
Malta
Malta
Native in English
Malta
12 yrs. experience translating EU stuff
Native in: English (Variants: British, UK) , Maltese
Works in: English to Maltese, Italian to Maltese, French to Maltese, and 3 more.
Fees
separated in different areas
2 hrs
Wolf Draeger
South Africa
South Africa
Native in English
Specializes in field
South Africa
Related KudoZ points
:
3
[reword it]
I might opt to reword it and avoid the repetition of "honneurs" and "charges" (which are admittedly different sides of the same coin - status and responsibility). This would also keep with the pattern in the previous parenthesis.
"Titles" for both honour and office?
"Titles" for both honour and office?
Example sentence:
...redistribution of wealth (...) and titles (noble, episcopal, monastic).
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Jocelyne Cuenin
: it depends which century we are talking about: a count is a count under Charlemagne and title = noble comes a little later (10th /11 th c. my 2nd link) ... after Charlemagne lost two envoys, four counts, and around twenty nobles in battle with the Saxons,
17 hrs
|
+3
21 mins
Jocelyne Cuenin
Germany
Germany
Native in French
Specializes in field
Germany
Linguist, tourist guide, GDR/RDA/DDR
Native in: French (Variant: Standard-France) 
Works in: German to French, English to French, French
office
...The issue becomes known as the investiture controversy, being in essence a dispute over who has the right to invest high clerics with the robes and insignia of office.
The appointment of bishops and abbots is too valuable a right to be easily relinquished by secular rulers. Great feudal wealth and power is attached to these offices. And high clerics, as the best educated members of the medieval community, are important members of any administration...
Read more: http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/plaintexthistories.asp?h...
page 156 for office and counts : http://books.google.de/books?id=MQUs2QnC2F4C&pg=PA156&lpg=PA...
office of capellanus
http://books.google.de/books?id=kxb8kR4hvbQC&pg=PA253&lpg=PA...
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Note added at 20 hrs (2012-11-23 09:51:25 GMT)
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..."...honour is not accorded to virtue because of the office held, but to the office because of the virtue of the holder". ...
The appointment of bishops and abbots is too valuable a right to be easily relinquished by secular rulers. Great feudal wealth and power is attached to these offices. And high clerics, as the best educated members of the medieval community, are important members of any administration...
Read more: http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/plaintexthistories.asp?h...
page 156 for office and counts : http://books.google.de/books?id=MQUs2QnC2F4C&pg=PA156&lpg=PA...
office of capellanus
http://books.google.de/books?id=kxb8kR4hvbQC&pg=PA253&lpg=PA...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2012-11-23 09:51:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
..."...honour is not accorded to virtue because of the office held, but to the office because of the virtue of the holder". ...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Jim Tucker (X)
9 mins
|
|
Merci, Jim. Bonne soirée !
|
|
| agree |
Tony M
: Yes here 'charge' is in the same sense of 'chargé d'affaires' etc. — tasking someone with something
45 mins
|
|
Hello,Tony. Merci !
|
|
| agree |
Karl Faubert
6 hrs
|
|
:-)
|
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