steimpakketten

Barend van Zadelhoff Jul 14, 2012:

Have a good weekend

Bryan Crumpler (asker) Jul 14, 2012:

steunen en stutten is commonly interchangeable...

It's plausible.

And as I said, you are giving too much credit to the authors that they would assume "steunpakket" is a good term for the unit in question.

Barend van Zadelhoff Jul 14, 2012:

don't get me wrong

- the company can use 'ondersteuning' rather than 'stutten' (but not 'STEUNEN') and the most obvious way to translate 'to shore' in your descriptions is 'stutten'
- I said 'ondersteuningspakketten' seems to me a high unlikely term in this context (I can't help it)
- I said ýou can't claim 'steimpakketten' is a typo for 'ondersteuningspakketten' (did you hear me) which is little bit more likely than 'steunpakketten' which sounds highly highly unlikely to me in this context (I can't help it)
- I am not thinking of something intricate or profound, I just keep open the possibility there can exist something that is unknown to me (there are many things are unknown to me) and I do think dat 'steunpakketten' is a highly unlikely term in this context (I can't help it)

Bryan Crumpler (asker) Jul 14, 2012:

I really think you are wrongfully assuming that the company would use the term "stutten" for this. "Stutten" appears NOWHERE in the company's literature even when they do mean what we properly call shoring in English.

I also think you have given too much credit to the authors, as it appears you think they mean something intricate or profound by this word "steimpakket", which you have yet to offer up any explanation for other than to criticize my presumption that it is a typo. It's plausible, given that the word doesn't exist, that they mean something else, but the context tells me otherwise.

Either way, I'll find out on Monday.

Thanks for your input.

Barend van Zadelhoff Jul 14, 2012:

'ondersteuning' comes closer

but even then 'ondersteuningspakketten' would seem a highly unlikely term to me, and you can't claim 'steimpakketten' would be a typo for 'ondersteuningspakketten'

perhaps 'ondersteuningselementen' would be a word that can be used if your idea of what these 'steinpakketten' are is right

also remember that I said that 'stutten' would be the correct translation in the SITUATIONS YOU DESCRIBED

Bryan Crumpler (asker) Jul 14, 2012:

It's a matter of terminology.

Researching the company that issued this document, it's 100% clear that by "ondersteuning" they mean shoring & infrastructure. Not "stutten."

Compare:

http://www.harsco-i.nl/producten/Bekistingen/Ondersteuningen...

with

http://www.harsco-i.co.uk/products/formwork_shoring/falsewor...

Also

http://www.harsco-i.nl/producten/Bekistingen/Ondersteuningen...

with

http://www.harsco-i.co.uk/products/formwork_shoring/falsewor...

Barend van Zadelhoff Jul 14, 2012:

but as I said you turned things round and apparently ignored what I was saying:

1) 'zogenaamde' precedes 'steimpakketten'; if it had been 'steunpakketten, there would be no obvious reason to place 'zogenaamde' in front of it; 'zogenaamde' indicates something peculiar will follow: that is 'Steimpakketten' .....

I mean, this might just as well explain why 'zogenaamd' is used and I am inclined to think this explanation is more likely

so again: why not just asked your client?

and again, I would be VERY surprised if they would call this 'steunpakketten'
but I understand better by now why you think it could be 'steunpakketten'


by the way, you used 'to shore' for describing two situations in your previous discussion entry

this meaning of 'to shore' would be correctly translated into Dutch as 'stutten' (NOT: steunen)


van Dale

'stutten'
prop (up), support
schoren ook: strut, shore up, buttress

if we follow your idea of what these 'steimpakketten' possibly are then 'stutelementen' or something would be a more likely word

Bryan Crumpler (asker) Jul 14, 2012:

I meant that... I think that "steunpakket" is not a standard term for this type of modular shoring unit and that it is an invented term, hence the "zogenaamde" bit before it. You stated there was no obvious reason, but if it were a typo, it still would be obvious that "zgn" would be needed since "steunpakket" is not really what these modular units are called.

What did seem apparent to me was that the "i" and "m" were next to the "u" and "n" respectively on the keyboard, which would make steim into steun IF it were a typo.

I DID notice the capital S, thinking it might be some trademarked name or referring to the inventor of such structures, but... I don't know.

I had to submit today, and it's nearly midnight, so I just included several notes regarding unclarified terms.

Barend van Zadelhoff Jul 14, 2012:

I follow your reasoning but I would be VERY surprised if they would call this 'steunpakketten'

also notice the capital 'S' in 'Steimpakketten'

why not verify this with your client?

what is relatively unrelated to this is the following
I misunderstood this argument

the obvious reason ...

for "zgn" is that "steunpakket" usually refers to a stimulus package or some type of aid deployed to a specific business or economic area, not necessarily any types of support structures (i.e. shoring) for tunneling / drilling purposes.

you turned things round and in that case, you mean, 'steunpakketten' is used in an unusual sense here

why didn't you say the reason might be that ... rather than the obvious reason .. ?

still, I would be surprised if they would call it 'steunpakketten'

Bryan Crumpler (asker) Jul 14, 2012:

"steun" or "ondersteuning" in terms of scaffolding == shoring (i.e. a system of providing *support* for structures so that they do not collapse in on themselves).

In terms of tunneling, shoring systems might be used to keep diaphram walls or the sides of the tunnel from collapsing inward while it is still being dug.

The "pakket" bit I'm presuming is what is inferred by a "modular unit"

Barend van Zadelhoff Jul 14, 2012:

Transport Efficiency: Steimpakketten *beperken het horizontaal vervoer op de werkplek tot het minimum*

"rather it is about being able to erect a complete scaffolding system within 8 days. Prefabricated structures made in house that can be shipped or transported to the work site as entire units will invariably limit the amount of back and forth MOVEMENT on and at the work site that otherwise might be done to construct / assemble the scaffold or shoring system bar by bar, plank by plank, tower by tower."

this was about what I was thinking
but what the hell is this to do with 'steunpakketten' !?

Bryan Crumpler (asker) Jul 14, 2012:

The text is not about transporation efficiency... ...rather it is about being able to erect a complete scaffolding system within 8 days. Prefabricated structures made in house that can be shipped or transported to the work site as entire units will invariably limit the amount of back and forth MOVEMENT on and at the work site that otherwise might be done to construct / assemble the scaffold or shoring system bar by bar, plank by plank, tower by tower.

I really think this has to do with some type of modular or standardized shoring / scaffodling unit, which makes sense to me in the context of the document in its entirety.

Barend van Zadelhoff Jul 14, 2012:

Okay, Bryan, believe what you want to believe.
I have seen your file on the internet and I have looked at the context provided by you and gave you my thoughts on this with just one intention and this is to give you good advice
take it or leave it
but 'steunpakketten' are meant for Greece and not for transport efficiency

Bryan Crumpler (asker) Jul 14, 2012:

The obvious reason... ...for "zgn" is that "steunpakket" usually refers to a stimulus package or some type of aid deployed to a specific business or economic area, not necessarily any types of support structures (i.e. shoring) for tunneling / drilling purposes.

Also, the u is next to the i and the n is next to the m on the keyboard. Would seem to be a logical typo to me.

Barend van Zadelhoff Jul 14, 2012:

Bryan, there are at least two reasons why this is most likely not just a typo

1) 'zogenaamde' precedes 'steimpakketten'; if it had been 'steunpakketten, there would be no obvious reason to place 'zogenaamde' in front of it; 'zogenaamde' indicates something peculiar will follow

2) the context does not offer any justification for calling them 'steunpakketten'

best thing to do, is to ask your client

it would seem these 'pakketten' have been put together in way that all the materials you need on a certain spot are available there, they contain something of this and of that and still something else and the same goes for all these 'pakketten', but this is just a thought