Tony M Mar 31, 2012:

Simple... or complex...? However, in all truth, we have a simple expression in EN that translates into an equally simple expression in FR; the only difficult bit is having the right technical knowledge in the middle to know which is the 'right' expression to use!

This is why I don't do medical translation... or any number of other fields where I am well aware that my specialist knowledge is not up to the job.

In my view, that specialist knowledge I have is what the agency should be paying for... and that's how it works for me in the vast majority of cases.

Tony M Mar 31, 2012:

@ Isabelle Yes, I quite agree, there are simpler and more complex situations; I think the trouble is when the source text was written by someone non-technical who simplified the language, and if one attempts then to translate it literally, one may end up with something not equivalently 'technically-accurate-but-simplified' in FR! I am always the first to warn against over-interpretation, and translating "what-I-think-the-writer-meant-to-say"! However, situations like this are a perfect example of where I as a translator need to have enough technical knowledge to interpret what is intended, and to translate it into something that is effectively culturally equivalent. Most lay people will of course think of lights as being full on, and their idea of dimming might be to simply turn some of them off; the reality of the situation may or may not be more sophisticated than that (in this particular context, it seems as if it may be). For me, 'dim the lights' means 'control the level of the lighting' — like I said, one specific example being used to represent a more complex whole. It's obvious that they might not ONLY want to dim the lights down; they might want to turn them back up again too!

Isabelle F. BRUCHER (X) Mar 31, 2012:

@ All: I find this is THE perfect example of apparently EASY vocabulary (that the agency is not prepared to pay much for...) which is in fact quite difficult to translate. You don't need Latin or highly scientific words to stumble upon translation difficulties. I'll keep the link to show them, in any case...

Isabelle F. BRUCHER (X) Mar 31, 2012:

@Tony So, in this particular context, it is best to translate "which lights to dim" by "comment moduler l'éclairage" (or "quelles lumières baisser" - although you say that nowadays, "to dim" means "to use a dimmer", i.e. increasing or decreasing the light - interesting! Thank you for this expert advice, Tony! I guess my experience was more limited than yours. Most of the presentations I have seen were in meeting rooms, not in theater-like, sophisticated places with lights whose intensity you can modulate as you like.

Tony M Mar 30, 2012:

@ Isabelle Yes, but I think the parallel is almost exact here between FR and EN — in EN, we would say 'dim the lights', it would sound very old-fashioned and rather quaint to say 'dim the lamps' (unless, of course one were talking about some specific lamps as decorative elements in a scene); 'turn down the lamp' comes directly from oil or gas lamps.

'Lamp' is used in very similar ways in EN, and when it is referring to a specific type of light source, like a 'mercury-iodide lamp' or a 'halogen lamp', then it is appropiate technical language; 'bulb' is a colloquial term to be deprecated.
But at a similar technical level, when referring to some kind of 'luminaire' or 'light fitting', in EN (and in FR too, I think) we don't tend to use 'lamp', unless, as I said before, it is in some way specifically shaped like an old-fashioned lamp, a streetlamp, etc.

"Halogen lamps are commonly used in modern luminaires, as they can easily be dimmed, unlike discharge lamps (fluorescent tubes, etc.), which require special fittings and dimming facilities."

Isabelle F. BRUCHER (X) Mar 30, 2012:

Definition of "lampe": bulb or lighting device LAMPE:

3. (1879, J. Verne, → cit. 20.2). Appareil d'éclairage par l'électricité*. ➙ Électrique (cit. 2).

a. Source de lumière (électrique). ➙ Ampoule, tube.

Lampe à incandescence.
Ampoule de verre, filament, culot, douille (à baïonnette, à vis) d'une lampe.
Lampe au tungstène.
Formes de lampes : lampes sphériques, lampes « oignon », lampes « flamme ».
Lampe en verre dépoli.
Lampes à vapeur de sodium, de mercure, à tube de quartz.
Lampe au néon, lampe au krypton; lampes fluorescentes. ➙ Tube.
Lampe à iode, à halogène.
Flux lumineux (en lumens), intensité lumineuse, puissance (en watts), résistance d'une lampe.
***Installation, suspension, fixation des lampes dans un local.***
Lampe fixée au mur par une applique (➙ Applique), lampe suspendue au plafond (➙ Couronne, 2. lustre, suspension), montée sur pieds (➙ Lampadaire).
***La lampe, les lampes d'un projecteur, d'un phare.***
***Il faut changer la lampe. La lampe a sauté, a claqué.***

b. Ensemble constitué par la source lumineuse et l'appareillage destiné à recevoir la lampe (au sens a), l'ampoule.

Pied, tige, abat-jour, tulipe, fil, commutateur, prise de courant d'une lampe.

Emmanuella Mar 30, 2012:

Tony, on the one hand you mention ' and that may well be what is in the writer's mind here, on the other hand , you mention 'So I feel sure that in Asker's specific context, we are talking about 'controlling the lighting level'...
This is what I wanted to point out, that's all. I.Brucher might be right.
Thanks for reminding me that I 'should not think outside the box'... For your information, I have been attending International Lighting Exhibitions for 10 years. Have a nice day.

Tony M Mar 29, 2012:

Dimming lights Although the origin of the word may be to reduce, and that might well be what is in the writer's mind here, I think it is important to think outside the box and remember that in modern (21st c.) technical language, 'to dim' has a meaning of 'to control the level using a dimmer'. It's all based in history of course; but the way language is used changes over 9 centuries...

And I can assure Isabelle B. that, as a theatre and lighting consultant and engineer having designed and executed dozens of conference venue lighting/sound installations, I am very familiar indeed with all the technical ins and outs of this sort of system, and that all sorts of dimming facilities are used in all sorts of locations.

So I feel sure that in Asker's specific context, we are talking about 'controlling the lighting level' in the widest possible sense ('dim' really being no more than metonymy for all the possible ways you might adjust the lighting), and any translation solution which is too restrictive or specific is IMHO inadvisable.

Isabelle F. BRUCHER (X) Mar 29, 2012:

I think in practice, in a conference room or a meeting room, you turn off some of the lights and keep some on, so that the overall lighting is dimmed/reduced. The purpose is that attendees can see the Powerpoint presentation on the screen, while they can still see the speaker. Lamps with dimmers are usually next to desks, in offices, not in meeting rooms or conference rooms, from my experience at least. I would just say: which lights to turn off... since it is already explained earlier that the overall effect would be a reduced lighting. Ouf.

Emmanuella Mar 29, 2012:

For Tony M - Origin of DIM
Middle English, from Old English dimm; akin to Old High German timber dark
First Known Use: before 12th century

Anne R (asker) Mar 29, 2012:

moduler l'éclairage selon moi **moduler** signifie plutôt régler, qui irait encore pour la première phrase, mais ne répond pas à ma question sur la deuxième, puisque je cherche à éviter la répétition. Mais merci tout-de-même