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Glossary entry

Czech term or phrase:

společné bydlení

English translation:

cohabitation

Added to glossary by Stephen R Schoening
Nov 7, 2011 23:17
12 yrs ago
4 viewers *
Czech term

společné bydlení

Czech to English Law/Patents Law (general) types of law
In a Czech divorce decree, this term is used in the following context

"...a manželství rozvede, jsou-li předloženy písemné smlouvy s ředně ověřenými podpisy častníků upravující pro dobu po tomto rozvodu vzpořádání vzájemným majetkových vztahů, práva a povinnosti společného bydlení a případnou vyživovací povinnost..."

Does this term refer to a joint/common residence, to the situation of living together, or possibly have anything to do with the child (one child is involved).

I appreciate any help with this legal term.

Stephen
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 cohabitation
4 +1 matrimonial home
4 divorced but living together
3 marital domicile

Discussion

Vladimír Hoffman Nov 8, 2011:
One idea What about "post-matrimonial home rights"? Cake has been eaten and we still have it:-)
Thank you all for interesting discussion.
Vladimír Hoffman Nov 8, 2011:
To Jan Kaisler Termin "společne bydlení" ako sa používa v kontexte otázky "písemné smlouvy s uředně ověřenými podpisy častníků upravující pro dobu po tomto rozvodu vzpořádání vzájemným majetkových vztahů, práva a povinnosti společného bydlení", je konkretny pravny termin tykajuci sa manzelov. Aj keby tam to manzelstvo nebolo uvedene, takato zmluva /spolu s inymi zmluvami o vysporiadani/ sa uvadza prave pred rozvodom. A tym, ze je tam manzelstvo explicitne spomenute, je jasne, ze ide o predrozvodovu zmluvu. Uvedenu SMLOUVU O VYPOŘÁDÁNÍ PRÁV A POVINNOSTÍ SPOLEČNÉHO BYDLENÍ MANŽELŮ PRO DOBU PO ROZVODU tu do linkujem. Ked si pozriete dikciu Family Law Act, je zrejme, ze obdobna zmluva tykajuca sa "matrimonial home rights"" sa pred rozvodom riesi aj v britskom prave. Chapem, ze vyraz matrimonial je v dobe po rozvode nelogicky, ale nenasiel som ziadny dokaz, ze by sa v okamihu rozvodu dane prava zmenili na cohabitation rights alebo living together rights. Podobnych nelogickosti je v ceskom, slovenskom aj anglickom prave pomerne vela. Jednoducho povedane, v ceskom aj britskom prave sa pred rozvodom uzatvara zmluva s velmi podobnym obsahom, nazov by teda mal byt ekvivalentny.
jankaisler Nov 8, 2011:
Termín "společné bydlení" je obecný termín a žádný "manželský" prvek neobsahuje. V tomto konkrétním případě jde sice o smlouvu manželů, avšak "pro dobu po tomto rozvodu", kdy už manželé nebudou a i když budou nadále "společně bydlet", tak určitě nebudou mít "manželské společné bydlení". To, že se "společné bydlení" týká manželů, je výslovně uvedeno na začátku věty. Howgh.
Vladimír Hoffman Nov 8, 2011:
Hannah Of course, divorce, thanks.
Vladimír Hoffman Nov 8, 2011:
To Jan Kaisler Hladany vyraz je "společné bydlení" v kontexte danej vety o predrozvodovom vysporiadani. Pokial by sme sa rozhodli ignorovat kontext, prekladanie sa zmeni na losovanie z x významov z rozličných oblastí ľudskej činnosti. A pokiaľ som si všimol, aj v otázkach na Kudoz sa kontext (pokiaľ je uvedený) vždy berie do úvahy.
Vladimír Hoffman Nov 8, 2011:
Therefore, I would really appreciate at least some explanation, WHY do you mean that term "cohabitation" with its broad meaning is applicable in this case, but "matrimonial home" with its specific meaning (which, moreover, corresponds to meaning of "společné bydlení") is not. I apologize for being persuasive and I am not going to continue in this discussion, but I would like to hear at least some arguments why do you consider "matrimonial home" incorrect. Just feeling is not enough. Thank you.
jankaisler Nov 8, 2011:
Hledaný termín je "společné bydlení" - a to, že se týká manželů, ať rozvedených či nikoliv, vyplývá pouze z kontextu. Použití adjektiva "matrimonial" není namístě ...
Hannah Geiger (X) Nov 8, 2011:
Please, nothing is developing into anything, and certainly NOT a war, as you put it - just take it easy. Divorce, not divorse, it must have been a typo, though.
Vladimír Hoffman Nov 8, 2011:
However, to stop something which slowly begins to evolve in some kind of flame war, I would like to summarize the question and answers.
First of all, the question relates to some agreements, which have to be made before a divorse. One of the agreement (or a part of broader agreement) relates to post-divorce arrangement of rights to occupy, rent, lease or sell a real property, where family lives before divorce. We can clearly see it in above linked document SMLOUVA O VYPOŘÁDÁNÍ PRÁV A POVINNOSTÍ SPOLEČNÉHO BYDLENÍ MANŽELŮ PRO DOBU PO ROZVODU. As there is no relevant dictionary or site directly translating the text, we have to find English term expressing same matters as the Czech one. I am strongly convinced that meaning of the English term "matrimonial home" is very close to Czech "společné bydlení". Again, you can check it in the Family Law Act and other linked documents. Alternative solution "cohabitation" has simply too broad meaning to be applicable in this case. As you can see in the Black's Dictionary of Law (relevant source, I hope), cohabitation is just act of living together. Wikipedia provides even broader meaning, talking about joint living of several people.
Hannah Geiger (X) Nov 8, 2011:
sorry, indeed, I gave some other link which I studied for other reasons.
Here is the correct one: http://ec.europa.eu/civiljustice/divorce/divorce_cze_en.htm
Vladimír Hoffman Nov 8, 2011:
Hannah Unfortunately, I failed to find quoted text on the first linked website (the embassy)
As for the second text. it is a document stored in the library of law school in the Dominican Republic. I am not able to evaluate its relevancy or accurateness.
Hannah Geiger (X) Nov 8, 2011:
A proposal for a divorce or for the declaration of the annulment of a marriage is
submitted to the District Court for the district in which the couple had its last
place of cohabitation in the Czech Republic, provided at least one of the
spouses lives in the district.

enj.org/portal/biblioteca/civil/suplente_civil/16.pdf
Hannah Geiger (X) Nov 8, 2011:
Divorce – Czech Republic
The documents in question are: a) a written contract governing the settlement of the mutual property relations, the rights and
responsibilities of cohabitation and any eventual maintenance for the period after the divorce
with the officially verified signatures of the spouses; b) a valid court decision approving the agreement regulating the circumstances of any minors for the time after the divorce.
http://www.mzv.cz/riyadh/en/information_about_the_czech_repu...
enj.org/portal/biblioteca/civil/suplente_civil/16.pdf
Vladimír Hoffman Nov 8, 2011:
Yes, but not applicable in this case. According to Black's Dictionary of Law: Cohabitation - The fact or state of living together, esp. as partners in life, usu. with the suggestion of sexual relations
Nothing about occupational rights after divorce.
Hannah Geiger (X) Nov 8, 2011:
Cohabitation IS a legal term, appears in legal dictionaries and often figures quite prominently.
Vladimír Hoffman Nov 8, 2011:
Hannah Sorry, but now I am confused. Cohabitation is not (in this context) specific legal term, but general one. I would really appreciate if you could submit at least some proof, why cohabitation should apply to specific case of settlement of occupation rights after divorce.
Hannah Geiger (X) Nov 8, 2011:
I am sorry, let us leave it this way: I would purposely NOT use the term matrimonial home. Thank you.
Vladimír Hoffman Nov 8, 2011:
Here is SMLOUVA O VYPOŘÁDÁNÍ PRÁV A POVINNOSTÍ SPOLEČNÉHO BYDLENÍ MANŽELŮ PRO DOBU PO ROZVODU, about which we are talking.
http://www.katalog-pravniku.cz/smlouvy/93-smlouva-o-vyporada...
It has much more restricted meaning than cohabitation. We should not use general, inaccurate term, if there exist specific legal term.
Hannah Geiger (X) Nov 8, 2011:
Yes, you are correct. Specific legal terms.
Vladimír Hoffman Nov 8, 2011:
We are not talking about general term describing common household of two people, but about specific legal term with exact meaning, which we could find, for example, in linked agreements (the very same agreements referred to in the question)
Hannah Geiger (X) Nov 8, 2011:
I interpreted it from the following text "upravující pro dobu po tomto rozvodu vzpořádání vzájemným majetkových vztahů, práva a povinnosti společného bydlení a případnou vyživovací povinnost..."
in view of that text I had no alternative but to use the term cohabitation
Vladimír Hoffman Nov 8, 2011:
Hannah I apologize if I am wrong, but I have a feeling that you confuse společné soužití (cohabitation is correct translation) for společné bydlení.
Vladimír Hoffman Nov 8, 2011:
But Czech term "spolecne bydleni" specifically refers to occupation rights to dwelling real estate. It is not about upbringing children, sharing household expenses (except for expenses related to occupation) or any other questions to which cohabitation could refer. See linked agreement http://www.katalog-pravniku.cz/smlouvy/93-smlouva-o-vyporada... Frankly, I do not understand, where you see differences betweeen matrimonial home rights and práva společného bydlení. Could you be more specific about it?
Hannah Geiger (X) Nov 8, 2011:
cohabitation does have a different meaning, I am sorry but that is why I have used it. I could have used matrimonial cohabitation which would be pertinent to marriage, but not in view of this situation. The division of property is a whole separate issue.
Vladimír Hoffman Nov 8, 2011:
Hannah Ked si pozriete text vety prilozenej k otazke, je jasne ze zmluva o vysporiadani práv společného bydlení sa uzatvára ešte pred rozvodom, takže aj to matrimonial sa dá priamo obhájiť. Aj keby nie, je celkom bezne, ze urcite prava a povinnosti pretrvavaju aj po ukonceni zmluvneho vztahu (a manzelstvo je takto mozne interpretovat), ktorý ich konštituoval, a to bez ohladu na ich pomenovanie.
Co je vsak podla mna zasadne, je blizkost vyznamov vyrazu matrimonial home rights a práva společného bydlení. V obidvoch pripadoch ide o pravo disponovat s nehnutelnym obytnym majetkom, v obidvoch pripadoch by sa mali vysporiadat pred rozvodom /viz. tiez http://www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/Articles/Finances/Protecting... Vyraz cohabitation /společné soužití/ ma vlastne dosť odlišný význam /http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohabitation/ a s delenim majetku a prav k uzivaniu obytnej nehnutelnosti skutocne nema nic spolocneho. Viz. http://www.ehow.com/list_6824665_illinois-cohabitation-right...
Vladimír Hoffman Nov 8, 2011:
Stephen http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Počítačová_klávesnice
(at the bottom of page)
Hannah Geiger (X) Nov 7, 2011:
Your are welcome.
Stephen R Schoening (asker) Nov 7, 2011:
Thanks for keyboard help! Thanks, Hannah, for help with this letter! I think it is the only letter on the Czech keyboard I could not find but now I know!

Stephen
Hannah Geiger (X) Nov 7, 2011:
on your Qwerty, ú is the left bracket next to P....someone told me so very recently
Stephen R Schoening (asker) Nov 7, 2011:
Sorry for omission of "u" s with accents I just wanted to say I could not figure out how to write u with accent, so accidentally left them out of my context. The words I misspelled should be "úředně" and "účastníků".
Stephen

Proposed translations

+3
11 mins
Selected

cohabitation

this appears to be after the divorce, in which case it is 'cohabitation' rather than 'matrimonial home'

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2011-11-08 12:46:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Divorce – Czech Republic

The documents in question are: a) a written contract governing the settlement of the mutual property relations,

the rights and responsibilities of cohabitation

and any eventual maintenance for the period after the divorce
with the officially verified signatures of the spouses; b) a valid court decision approving the agreement regulating the circumstances of any minors for the time after the divorce.
http://www.mzv.cz/riyadh/en/information_about_the_czech_repu...
enj.org/portal/biblioteca/civil/suplente_civil/16.pdf


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2011-11-08 12:56:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A proposal for a divorce or for the declaration of the annulment of a marriage is
submitted to the District Court for the district in which the couple had its last
place of cohabitation in the Czech Republic, provided at least one of the
spouses lives in the district.

enj.org/portal/biblioteca/civil/suplente_civil/16.pdf


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2011-11-08 13:10:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://ec.europa.eu/civiljustice/divorce/divorce_cze_en.htm
Peer comment(s):
agree Jirina Nevosadova
3 mins
děkuji
agree Sarka Rubkova
7 hrs
děkuji
agree jankaisler : To je správné řešení - "společné soužití/společné bydlení" a nevztahuje se jen na manžele či rozvedené manžele ..
13 hrs
děkuji
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, Hannah! Stephen"
6 mins

marital domicile

...
Something went wrong...
+1
7 hrs

matrimonial home

As can be seen from the below links, Czech term "spolecne bydleni" and English term "matrimonial home" have almost identical meaning, especially when we are talking about matrimonial home rights (and their settlement).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2011-11-08 06:21:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Also http://www1.landregistry.gov.uk/upload/documents/public_guid...
Reference:

http://www.katalog-pravniku.cz/zajimavost/vzorova-smlouva-o-vyporadani-vzajemnych-majetkovych-vztahu-a-vyzivovaci-povinnosti/

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/27/part/IV/crossheading/rights-to-occupy-matrimonial-home

Peer comment(s):
neutral Hannah Geiger (X) : "společné bydleni" a "matrimonial home" do not have an 'almost identical meaning', and there is nothing matrimonial about a divorced couple....the links you give do not pertain to the question...IMHO only
28 mins
Does it mean that you object to proposal due to the word "matrimonial"? There are many valid legal terms with illogical name (although I do not mean this is the case), hat is important is their meaning. See disjussion.
agree Elizabeth Spacilova : the words "manželství rozvede, jsou-li" being quite crucial here
4 hrs
ďakujem.
Something went wrong...
22 hrs

divorced but living together

divorce agreement concerning property settlement, rights and obligations of living together in the same residence (under the same roof) for a period of time, for example, until a divorced husband or wife finds a new residency or because of their financial or mortgage situation etc.,
Something went wrong...
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