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Plazentafern

Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

mit Material verlagert

English translation:

moved in with the rubble of excavation

Added to glossary by Susan Welsh
Sep 13, 2011 01:41
12 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term

mit Material verlagert

German to English Social Sciences Archaeology Roman Empire
The discussion is on the presence of women and children inside Roman forts. My translation of the queried phrase (which is in quotes in the source text) is the rather bizarre idea that (ironically speaking) the babies were "brought in with the groceries." It's the only way I can make sense of it. Am I on the right track?

Das Fundmaterial mit verschiedenen spezifisch weiblichen Komponenten aus den Kastellen und dessen Verteilung bestätigt diesen Ansatz von Frauen (und Kindern), die in den Kastellen tätig waren und vielleicht zeitweise dort sogar lebten, nicht nur im Haushalt des Kommandanten, sondern auch in den Baracken. Selbst wenn man z. B. die Nutzung von Spinnwirteln und das Tragen verschiedener Schmuckformen durch Soldaten nicht ausschließen will, lassen sich die bei entsprechender Grabungstechnik zunehmend entdeckten Neonaten in römischen Kastellen kaum immer als ** „mit Material verlagert“ ** wegdiskutieren.

My draft of the last sentence:

Even if, for example, we do not want to exclude the possibility that soldiers used spindle whorls and wore various types of jewelry, excavation techniques are now increasingly finding neonates in Roman forts, who can scarcely be explained away as having been "brought in with the groceries."

Thanks!
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 part of the rubble
3 casual deposits among others
1 -2 stocked away with the supplies

Discussion

Susan Welsh (asker) Sep 13, 2011:
Stoff Actually, that's cognate too, since "material" can refer to fabric in English. Actually, the best all-around (colloquial) synonym for "material" in English is "stuff"!
Ramey Rieger (X) Sep 13, 2011:
Hi Susan "Verlagert". As residue, "Materie"? Piled up amidst the rubble? Carted off as part of the rubble? OR!, perhaps simply "buried under/along with the rubble" "dug up with the rubble" - as you can see, I'm fond of "rubble"! The only other definition of material, in English, is "Stoff", as in textiles. Otherwise it's a direct cognate.
Susan Welsh (asker) Sep 13, 2011:
Brigitte: The "groceries" was intended ironically, a linguistic stretch meaning "the supplies that are brought into the fort from the surrounding settlement." This is not about a dig as such, a particular dig, but rather an overview describing the various settlements associated with Roman forts and their relationship to the forts--building layout, road patterns, implements found, demographics. It's for a textbook.
BrigitteHilgner Sep 13, 2011:
archaeologial material is probably what the author means. Spontaneously I thought of building material, but that is probably too narrow. I don't associate "Material" with groceries. Yes, I would say that things were moved, maybe accidentally. But we need more context to be sure - is this about an archaeological dig?
Susan Welsh (asker) Sep 13, 2011:
stones, rubble... makes sense to me, and Ramey's answer seems to move in the right direction. But I have two questions: 1) Does "Material" have any different meanings/connotations in German than in English? Dictionaries seem to indicate that they they are simple cognates, which makes it harder to understand this sentence. You wouldn't use "material" here in English. 2) How does the "verlagert" fit into Ramey's answer? Something has to be moved to somewhere else, no?
BrigitteHilgner Sep 13, 2011:
With sibsab One might assume that some material (e.g. stones) was used by the local population to bury dead babies after the Romans had left but there are too many neonates burried in the area to make this seem plausible.
Sabine Akabayov, PhD Sep 13, 2011:
I understand "mit Material verlagert", that the material (soil, stones etc) was moved after the occupation. One skeleton of a baby might be explained by the material being moved into the area (contamination), but the chances that more skeletons were brought in this way is scarce, so they must have been born there.

Proposed translations

+1
4 hrs
Selected

part of the rubble

I came up with this suggestion based on discussion entries.
Note from asker:
Promising! Please see discussion.
Peer comment(s):
agree olympio (X) : good suggestion
11 hrs
thank you Olympio, greetings to Hephaestos!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, and also to sibsab (who was "most helpful," but didn't submit an answer) and the others who helped. I ended up using "moved in with the rubble of excavation.""
-2
41 mins

stocked away with the supplies

stocked away with the supplies

sources:

Greek Default Fears Will Pass Just Like Y2K
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17 Jun 2011 – Lots of guns and gold were snatched up, food supplies stocked away, and preparedness plans put in place. Then we waited… and waited ...

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www.bbb.org/.../disaster-strikes-everything-you-need-to-kno...
31 Mar 2011 – Supplies stocked away and important documents easily available? Are we fully insured for potential damage, whether we live on a flood plain, ...

Protecting Your Food Supply - 10 Tips
www.foodshortageusa.com/Article_03.html
If you do, and there's a crisis, you may be overrun with people who know you have plenty stocked away. Are you then prepared to defend your food supply? 5. ...

10 Tips: Stay safe during power outages - money - 10 Tips - TODAY ...
today.msnbc.msn.com/id/.../stay-safe-secure-during-power-outages/
12 Dec 2008 – 1, you ideally should have a supply of water stocked away for yourself and your family — but what if you don't? Then make a mental note of ...
Peer comment(s):
disagree Sabine Akabayov, PhD : really?
6 mins
disagree Armorel Young : why would you "stock away" dead babies?
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 hr

casual deposits among others

something along these lines maybe ...

For the purposes of this paper, 'human remains' is defined as 'the archaeological deposits surviving from the burial, disposal or casual ...

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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-09-13 03:43:01 GMT)
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pretty free but I think the idea is that these finds cannot be simply discarded as casual i.e. they provide evidence of women and children having been around

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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-09-13 03:58:50 GMT)
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deposits found among other material

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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-09-13 04:01:24 GMT)
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or: items that turned up among casual deposits

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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-09-13 04:02:04 GMT)
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should read "other casual deposits"

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Note added at 3 hrs (2011-09-13 04:53:46 GMT)
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or: found among other (casual) deposits

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Note added at 3 hrs (2011-09-13 04:54:26 GMT)
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a really tricky 1
Something went wrong...
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