Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Russian term or phrase:
большая судебная изба
English translation:
great court house/building
Added to glossary by
Rachel Douglas
Apr 8, 2011 03:06
13 yrs ago
Russian term
United States
Excellent English from Russian originals
Native in: English (Variants: US, British, Australian)
Works in: Russian to English
большая судебная изба
Russian to English
Art/Literary
History
Architecture of ancient Pskov
N. Karamzin describes events in early 16th century Pskov.
"... велел им идти ***в большую судебную избу***, куда государь, сидя с думными вельможами ***в передней избе***, прислал князя Александра Ростовского"...
"... [he] commanded them to go to the ***great court building***, whither the Sovereign, sitting with his Duma courtiers in ***the front building***, sent Prince Alexander Rostovsky... '
Somehow I think these избы are not "huts," but does anybody know for sure what these buildings are called in English? I would like to see answers with references to published writings, please.
"... велел им идти ***в большую судебную избу***, куда государь, сидя с думными вельможами ***в передней избе***, прислал князя Александра Ростовского"...
"... [he] commanded them to go to the ***great court building***, whither the Sovereign, sitting with his Duma courtiers in ***the front building***, sent Prince Alexander Rostovsky... '
Somehow I think these избы are not "huts," but does anybody know for sure what these buildings are called in English? I would like to see answers with references to published writings, please.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 | Greater Court House |
Roman Bardachev
|
| 4 +1 | large court room |
Jack slep
|
| 4 | the Great Courts... where, in the front chambers sat... etc. |
Michael Korovkin
|
| 3 | great wooden court building |
David Knowles
|
Proposed translations
2 hrs
Roman Bardachev
Canada
Canada
Native in Russian
Canada
University Degree in Translation
Native in: Russian
Works in: English to Russian, Russian to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
Greater Court House
Quite naturally, when thinking of izba, first thing that comes to mind is a wooden log construction in a Russian village.
Let us, however, take a closer look at dictionary definitions of izba. Apart from peasant's dwelling, we will also come across izba being defined (in the context of medieval Russia) as канцелярия, присутственное место (ист.), e.g. Воеводская изба. Посольская изба (Ushakov's Dictionary), орган центрального управления; приказ (на Руси XVI в.) (Yefremova's Dictionary), and первоначальное название в 16 в. приказа (Поместная изба, Посольская изба) (Greater Soviet Encyclopaedia). See http://www.classes.ru/all-russian/russian-dictionary-Ushakov...
Essentially, what is meant here is a public office office of sorts, and not a log edifice, which it still very well might be construction-wise.
My take on this would be to detach myself from architectural implications, and call it what it is - a greater court house.
Let us, however, take a closer look at dictionary definitions of izba. Apart from peasant's dwelling, we will also come across izba being defined (in the context of medieval Russia) as канцелярия, присутственное место (ист.), e.g. Воеводская изба. Посольская изба (Ushakov's Dictionary), орган центрального управления; приказ (на Руси XVI в.) (Yefremova's Dictionary), and первоначальное название в 16 в. приказа (Поместная изба, Посольская изба) (Greater Soviet Encyclopaedia). See http://www.classes.ru/all-russian/russian-dictionary-Ushakov...
Essentially, what is meant here is a public office office of sorts, and not a log edifice, which it still very well might be construction-wise.
My take on this would be to detach myself from architectural implications, and call it what it is - a greater court house.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks to all, especially Roman and Jack. The discussion didn't get me beyond "house" and "building," but that's likely OK. And I especially appreciate the point Roman made, that "I understand 'передняя изба' as the Front Hall, an edifice entirely separate from the Court House..." Together with Jack's Pskov-area reference book on the great variety of such buildings, now I really do intend to go find a historical or architectural book with a drawing."
3 hrs
Michael Korovkin
Italy
Italy
Native in Russian
&
English
Specializes in field
Italy
Native in: English 
, Russian
Works in: Russian to English, English to Russian, Italian to Russian, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
36
the Great Courts... where, in the front chambers sat... etc.
не мудрствуя лукаво “Courts“ is a building / buildings anyway
3 hrs
David Knowles
Native in English
Specialist in Civil Law & Contracts
Native in: English 
Works in: Russian to English, English, Ukrainian to English
Related KudoZ points
:
28
great wooden court building
I wrestled with this in Темные аллеи (Dark Avenues) by Bunin, and left it as izba with a footnote! A recent translation used "hut" but I really don't think it will work here. In the Bunin story it's used for a building that serves as a government post station and inn, which is quite different.
So my suggestion is to add "wooden" to indicate that it's not made of brick or stone, but without lessening the importance of the building.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2011-04-08 07:28:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Maybe Roman's "House" would be better than "building". Also, you have to decide about "front building": I think I'd go for "front court" or possibly "anterior court" if that suits the style better.
So my suggestion is to add "wooden" to indicate that it's not made of brick or stone, but without lessening the importance of the building.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2011-04-08 07:28:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Maybe Roman's "House" would be better than "building". Also, you have to decide about "front building": I think I'd go for "front court" or possibly "anterior court" if that suits the style better.
+1
22 hrs
large court room
Historically изба is a government office, hence it's a court room
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2011-04-09 01:57:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
But since it's "large" it may be a courthouse rather than a courtroom
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2011-04-09 01:57:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
But since it's "large" it may be a courthouse rather than a courtroom
Reference comments
1 hr
Ingunite
Specializes in field
Reference:
Here is some reference material regarding izba, its origins and evolution:
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Wood Architecture
Judging from the pictures in the sites below, at least few of "izbas" were quite palatial, and possibly, could be easily translated as "palaces":
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/repbyf49/view/190404?page=0
(the palace of Aleksei Mikhailovich in the village of Kolomenskoe near Moscow (1667-81), Kolomenskoye Palace)
and
http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2008/04/20/old-russian-lu...
Not much of an answer to your question, but perhaps it will help.
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Wood Architecture
Judging from the pictures in the sites below, at least few of "izbas" were quite palatial, and possibly, could be easily translated as "palaces":
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/repbyf49/view/190404?page=0
(the palace of Aleksei Mikhailovich in the village of Kolomenskoe near Moscow (1667-81), Kolomenskoye Palace)
and
http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2008/04/20/old-russian-lu...
Not much of an answer to your question, but perhaps it will help.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Elizabeth Adams
: Yes, I have seen изба used to describe very large wooden buildings
15 mins
|
|
Thank you.
|
Discussion
- [ Translate this page ]
Внутри крепости было много гражданских построек: большой двор наместника, казенная и судебные избы, амбары и погреба. Там же располагались и осадные избы, ...
culture.pskov.ru/ru/objects/object/33