Glossary entry (derived from question below)
German term or phrase:
Rentendorf
English translation:
retirement village
Added to glossary by
Jan Liebelt
Mar 2, 2011 15:20
13 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term
Rentendorf
German to English
Social Sciences
History
Nazi terminology
A Nazi term for villages in occupied Poland to which elderly non-Germans and children were sent to make way for ethnic Germans. According to a German Wikipedia entry, "Rentendörfer wurden die jüdischen Siedlungen genannt, deren Bewohner in die Vernichtungslager transportiert worden waren."
Does anyone know what these were termed in English? No guesses, please (I can do that myself!). References backing up suggested answers would be extremely welcome.
Many thanks in advance!
Does anyone know what these were termed in English? No guesses, please (I can do that myself!). References backing up suggested answers would be extremely welcome.
Many thanks in advance!
Proposed translations
(English)
3 +2 | retirement town/village | Ryan Armbrust Diaz (X) |
4 +1 | transit camp / deportation camp / ghetto | Helen Shiner |
3 | Pensioners' village | Diana Unfer |
References
Rentendorf | Helen Shiner |
Proposed translations
+2
1 hr
Selected
retirement town/village
This is what I found (see sources). It is obviously a euphemism and should not be described as a deportation camp or ghetto (even though that is what they were). I would add that this is what Nazis used to call them in order to "sell" them to the public. Depends on the context of the text I suppose.
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Note added at 2 Stunden (2011-03-02 17:28:28 GMT)
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To the Nazis, to "retire" them meant to dispose of them or kill them. Like I said, a euphemism.
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Note added at 2 Stunden (2011-03-02 17:28:28 GMT)
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To the Nazis, to "retire" them meant to dispose of them or kill them. Like I said, a euphemism.
Reference:
Note from asker:
I think you've hit the nail on the head there. I'd already found several mentions of pensioners' villages (including those listed by dianau above), but had misgivings about using this term because of its inherent ambiguity. Perhaps the qualifier "so called" is what is needed here. Thanks for your input! |
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Helen Shiner
: Ref your second link. It refers to Theresienstadt as a retirement village. History generally refers to it as a concentration camp and previously a ghetto:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresienstadt_concentration_ca... hindsight - it was propaganda.
11 mins
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Yes, because, in hindsight, we know what it is. Back then they used to refer to it differently.
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agree |
Johanna Timm, PhD
: with a qualifier: "so-called" retirement villages; http://tiny.cc/cughn
26 mins
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agree |
Anne-Mette
: or place it in inverted commas to mark the euphemism
1 hr
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That would be the best solution, I agree.
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neutral |
Lancashireman
: Sorry Ryan, not convinced by the argument “this is what Nazis used to call them”. They gave them a German name which has to be either 1) left as is and/or 2) explained and/or 3) translated literally. Rente = pension; Pensionierung/Ruhestand = retirement.
4 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Many thanks (everyone)! I will definitely use "so-called" in this particular context, though the term still appears to be in use today, albeit with less cynical connotations."
+1
48 mins
transit camp / deportation camp / ghetto
See my refs below.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Rolf Buesken (X)
: Sounds best to me.
12 hrs
|
Thanks, yes the Asker will need to explain what it is. Just translating Rentendorf, even with 'so-called' won't be enough.
|
50 mins
Pensioners' village
Please see references below:
Non-Germans under the Third Reich (p. 809)
http://books.google.de/books?id=J_BCNrHG9K8C&pg=PA809&dq=pen...
Of pure blood (p. 180)
http://books.google.de/books?ei=XmhuTcmWF46q8APxro3qDg&ct=re...
Non-Germans under the Third Reich (p. 809)
http://books.google.de/books?id=J_BCNrHG9K8C&pg=PA809&dq=pen...
Of pure blood (p. 180)
http://books.google.de/books?ei=XmhuTcmWF46q8APxro3qDg&ct=re...
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Helen Shiner
: Whilst this may be correct, it sounds much more like a translation to me, and suggests holiday camps for pensioners (without the extermination in view).
9 mins
|
Reference comments
24 mins
Reference:
Rentendorf
Not a direct translation but this place was described as a Rentendorf and there is a corresponding paragraph in EN which you may find helpful.
Things that spring to mind are transit camp, deportation camp, ghetto.
Nach dem deutschen Überfall auf Polen im September 1939 waren Kreis und Stadt Siedlce Teil des von Deutschland besetzten Generalgouvernement. Im Stadtzentrum wurde ein von der SS bewachtes "großes Ghetto" installiert, "in dem etwa 15.000 Juden lebten. In einem separaten Gebäudekomplex wurden 1941 westdeutsche Roma, die im Zuge der Mai-Deportation 1940 ins Generalgouvernement deportiert worden waren, festgehalten. Beide Gruppen hatten in der Stadt und ihrer Umgebung Zwangsarbeit zu leisten. Eine zweite Deportation von Roma - aus dem Kreis Siedlce - ins große Ghetto geschah im Juni 1942.[2] Am 19. August 1942 wurden die Juden aus Siedlce in das Vernichtungslager Treblinka abtransportiert. Dabei wurden auch Roma erschossen. Die überlebenden Roma wurden in das etwas außerhalb der Stadt gelegene kleine Ghetto überführt.[3] Im September 1942 kam es erneut zu, wie zeitgenössische deutsche Quellen berichten, "Greueltaten" eines deutschen "Sonderkommandos" in der Kreisstadt.[4] Während der Aktion Zamość, also des Germanisierungs- bzw. "Umvolkungs"versuchs im Kontext des Generalplans Ost wurde Siedlce als "Rentendorf" Unterbringungsstation für 350 zwangsausgesiedelte Familien aus dem Distrikt Lublin, die Volksdeutschen Platz zu machen hatten.[5] Ende Juli 1944 nahm die Rote Armee Siedlce ein. Die Einwohnerzahl betrug zu diesem Zeitpunkt noch 27.500, die Stadt war zur Hälfte zerstört.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siedlce
The antisemitic persecutions perpetrated by the Black Hundreds in the last decades of Tsarist rule touched Siedlce with a pogrom in 1906, in which 26 Jews perished. In the wake of the First World War the town was affected by the Polish-Soviet War, being occupied by the Red Army in 1920 and taken over by the Polish Army in 1921. In 1939, Jews constituted some 37% of the town's population. Germans exiled some thousand Jews from elsewhere in Poland to Siedlce in 1940, especially from Łódź, Kalush and Pabianice. In March 1941 - still before the formal decision to implement the "Final Solution" of wholesale extermination the Jews - German forces rampaged for three days in Siedlce, killing many of its Jewish inhabitants. In August of the same year the town's Jews were herded into a ghetto and on October 1, 1941 were completely cut off from the outside world. In August 1942 some 10,000 of the Siedlce Jews were deported to Treblinka together with around 10 thousand gentile population for the Siedlce forced labour camps and murdered there. The town's remaining 7,000 Jews were sent off to extermination on November 25, 1942.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siedlce
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Note added at 29 mins (2011-03-02 15:49:47 GMT)
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http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=h0oFGH81O7MC&pg=PA410&lpg...
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Note added at 39 mins (2011-03-02 15:59:56 GMT)
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Now what do you mean about 'dumping grounds'. The ghettos at this time were hardly picnics!
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Note added at 40 mins (2011-03-02 16:01:02 GMT)
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I imagine this Rentendorf was probably something like Drancy in Paris:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Drancy...
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Note added at 42 mins (2011-03-02 16:02:22 GMT)
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On ghettos during the Nazi period: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Łódź_Ghetto
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Note added at 58 mins (2011-03-02 16:19:00 GMT)
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Please note that your own original context says that these camps were places from where people were transported to extermination camps. They are generally known as transit or deportation camps. There is undoubtedly a difference between ghettos and such camps but the ghettos were also cleared and people were deported/transported to be exterminated, too.
For what it is worth, the other suggestion of 'pensioners' camps' sounds like a translation to me and sounds much more like a holiday camp. For the purposes of comprehension, I would favour transit or deportation camp if your text makes such a distinction.
Things that spring to mind are transit camp, deportation camp, ghetto.
Nach dem deutschen Überfall auf Polen im September 1939 waren Kreis und Stadt Siedlce Teil des von Deutschland besetzten Generalgouvernement. Im Stadtzentrum wurde ein von der SS bewachtes "großes Ghetto" installiert, "in dem etwa 15.000 Juden lebten. In einem separaten Gebäudekomplex wurden 1941 westdeutsche Roma, die im Zuge der Mai-Deportation 1940 ins Generalgouvernement deportiert worden waren, festgehalten. Beide Gruppen hatten in der Stadt und ihrer Umgebung Zwangsarbeit zu leisten. Eine zweite Deportation von Roma - aus dem Kreis Siedlce - ins große Ghetto geschah im Juni 1942.[2] Am 19. August 1942 wurden die Juden aus Siedlce in das Vernichtungslager Treblinka abtransportiert. Dabei wurden auch Roma erschossen. Die überlebenden Roma wurden in das etwas außerhalb der Stadt gelegene kleine Ghetto überführt.[3] Im September 1942 kam es erneut zu, wie zeitgenössische deutsche Quellen berichten, "Greueltaten" eines deutschen "Sonderkommandos" in der Kreisstadt.[4] Während der Aktion Zamość, also des Germanisierungs- bzw. "Umvolkungs"versuchs im Kontext des Generalplans Ost wurde Siedlce als "Rentendorf" Unterbringungsstation für 350 zwangsausgesiedelte Familien aus dem Distrikt Lublin, die Volksdeutschen Platz zu machen hatten.[5] Ende Juli 1944 nahm die Rote Armee Siedlce ein. Die Einwohnerzahl betrug zu diesem Zeitpunkt noch 27.500, die Stadt war zur Hälfte zerstört.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siedlce
The antisemitic persecutions perpetrated by the Black Hundreds in the last decades of Tsarist rule touched Siedlce with a pogrom in 1906, in which 26 Jews perished. In the wake of the First World War the town was affected by the Polish-Soviet War, being occupied by the Red Army in 1920 and taken over by the Polish Army in 1921. In 1939, Jews constituted some 37% of the town's population. Germans exiled some thousand Jews from elsewhere in Poland to Siedlce in 1940, especially from Łódź, Kalush and Pabianice. In March 1941 - still before the formal decision to implement the "Final Solution" of wholesale extermination the Jews - German forces rampaged for three days in Siedlce, killing many of its Jewish inhabitants. In August of the same year the town's Jews were herded into a ghetto and on October 1, 1941 were completely cut off from the outside world. In August 1942 some 10,000 of the Siedlce Jews were deported to Treblinka together with around 10 thousand gentile population for the Siedlce forced labour camps and murdered there. The town's remaining 7,000 Jews were sent off to extermination on November 25, 1942.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siedlce
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 29 mins (2011-03-02 15:49:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=h0oFGH81O7MC&pg=PA410&lpg...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2011-03-02 15:59:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Now what do you mean about 'dumping grounds'. The ghettos at this time were hardly picnics!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 40 mins (2011-03-02 16:01:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I imagine this Rentendorf was probably something like Drancy in Paris:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Drancy...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 42 mins (2011-03-02 16:02:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
On ghettos during the Nazi period: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Łódź_Ghetto
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 58 mins (2011-03-02 16:19:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Please note that your own original context says that these camps were places from where people were transported to extermination camps. They are generally known as transit or deportation camps. There is undoubtedly a difference between ghettos and such camps but the ghettos were also cleared and people were deported/transported to be exterminated, too.
For what it is worth, the other suggestion of 'pensioners' camps' sounds like a translation to me and sounds much more like a holiday camp. For the purposes of comprehension, I would favour transit or deportation camp if your text makes such a distinction.
Note from asker:
Thanks, Helen. Unfortunately, I must disagree with you (and Ingeborg) in that Rentendörfer weren't so much ghettos (which were were walled "cities within cities" specifically set up to corral Jews) as dumping grounds, from what I understand. |
I understand where you're coming from on this, but where ghettos were primarily places where Jews were kept prior to their deportation to concentration/extermination camps, the Rentendörfer were used simply to resettle the elderly and young children of any (non-germanic) race, where they were simply left to die. Perhaps I'm wrong, but the article I'm working on seems to make a clear distinction between ghettos and Rentendörfer. |
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree |
Ingeborg Gowans (X)
: good research/ maybe ghetto would be the best term here
6 mins
|
Thanks Ingeborg, I agree.
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Discussion