Dec 15, 2009 04:02
14 yrs ago
Hungarian term

Belugyi szamon

Hungarian to English Other Government / Politics
I am translating a long project, which includes an Access Permit card in Hungarian. The card holder participated in a course sponsored by ILEA (International Law Enforcement Academy.) The above sentence is part of that card.
MTIA,
Monika
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (2): Ildiko Santana, Katalin Horváth McClure

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Discussion

Katalin Horváth McClure Dec 15, 2009:
You could have just... sent the whole thing in an email to me...
Monika Coulson (asker) Dec 15, 2009:
Hi Katalin, Thank you and I understand your concern now that I know more about Hungarian, (Albanian is the same actually.) I did it because I was not aware of this fact, and also tried to obey the (no more than) 10-words KudoZ rule. Anyway, thanks for helping me with this situation: it was toward the end of the project and not even the client knew that the back of that card was in Hungarian. I would not have recognized the language either, if it wasn't for the "Budapest" clue I saw on the address.
Thanks again, Katalin!
Katalin Horváth McClure Dec 15, 2009:
Word order in Hungarian Monika,
Since Hungarian often uses a different (reverse) word order than English, plus it uses inflections, conjugations as opposed to prepositions, it can be dangerous trying to break up sentences and translate them separately.
Monika Coulson (asker) Dec 15, 2009:
Sorry for not putting the number. Hopefully this will make more sense now. The entire line reads: 14-099 Belugyi szamon.
Monika Coulson (asker) Dec 15, 2009:
Yes, it seems like an extension number. It has this format: 14-099. Thanks Katalin.
Katalin Horváth McClure Dec 15, 2009:
What kind of number is there? I assume the number you see there is more like an extension, not a full phone number, right? The reason I am asking is that the asked phrase means an internal number, used withing the offices of the Ministry of Interior (Belügyminisztérium in Hungarian, however, I am not sure anymore what the official name is, it seems it may have changed recently.)

Proposed translations

+1
19 mins

at the Department of Interior number...

There must be some more context to clarify if this is correct. The Belugyi szam would be Department of Interior number; the preposition depends on the context. Also, in some contexts the word szam may be translated as other than number (numeral, key, whatever). Whithout context this is my best guess.
Note from asker:
Thanks, Denny.
Peer comment(s):

agree Ildiko Santana : Yes (US English anyways). Belügyi: short form of Belügyminisztériumi which is Department of Interior i.e. Ministry of Internal Affairs; számon: at number ...
2 days 4 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
28 mins
Hungarian term (edited): Belügyi számon

Ministry of Interior internal number

If the entire line reads: 14-099 Belügyi számon, and this is also on that card that you asked about, you may want to match the word order to the other entries (business hours and such).
Note from asker:
Thank you so much, Katalin. Your suggestion fits the context perfectly. Thanks again!
Peer comment(s):

agree Krisztina Lelik
7 hrs
neutral Ildiko Santana : The source text does not suggest that it's an internal number, only the number of digits, and only for someone familiar with the Budapest phone numbering system these days. I would not add the word "internal" since it is not in the original.
2 days 4 hrs
Ildikó, "Belügyi szám" indicates the internal phone network of "belügy". That is different from the public phone system. It has been in place for at least 50 years, perhaps more.
Something went wrong...
-1
3 hrs

For internal calls on Homeland Security line:

I know that my answer is a little bit different from those of my peers, but please, bear with me, and read the explanation. Belügyi is as short form for belügyminisztériumi (from the Ministry of Interior), however since the function of the Hungarian Ministry of Interior is different from the function of the U.S. Department of Interior, it would give the wrong association if we simply in. The function of the Hungarian Ministry of Interior is closest to that of the current Department of Homeland Security (you are familiar with it, because you are a U.S. resident), just like the function of Sigurimi in your home country. Now, regarding the phone line. I know of three organizations in Hungary (there might have been more) that had their internal phone network. These are the Ministry of Interior, Hungarian National Railroads, and Ministry of Defense. Apparently the cardholder is an employee of the Ministry of Interior, and is entitled to use the internal telephone network. Very important: not every Ministry of Interior employee was entitled to use the network, only those who had been given access. And the internal network was set up to assist primarily the people working for the Hungarian Homeland Security. If he was allowed to give out the internal network number, he was definitely linked to Homeland Security.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days20 hrs (2009-12-19 00:32:14 GMT)
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Here is some answer to the peer comments below, because it would not fit there. First of all in Hungary there is no Belügyminisztérium any more, because it was changed to Önkormányzati Minisztérium, but officially it was Ministry of Interior, at least by their own minister and the prime minister. See here: http://www.magyarorszag.hu/english/abouthungary/data/system/...
Yes, I agree, you can translate it Ministry of Internal Affairs, because this term is used in official English translations of Russia, Uganda, Liberia etc., but why go that far? The reason I used a US format is, because Monika lives in the U.S. and I presume that it is for an American client, plus the ILEA was set up by the U.S.A. in Hungary at the time of the political changeover. We translated a lot of material for them at that time, and this is how I know about the belügyi vonal. This is how I know that this special secure line was created to connect the police stations and other institutions of homeland security with the ministry and with each other. When we translate we try to use the most descriptive version, and I am convinced that mine was the most descriptive and true.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Katalin Horváth McClure : You cannot call Belügyminisztérium Homeland Security, because this card specifically related to the Hungarian Ministry of Interior. That is the English name the ministry itself uses.// Why should the US naming be used? The card is not used in the US.
7 hrs
Sorry, I can. It is true that the sentence indicates Department of the Interior, but as I explained the function of the American Dept. of Interior is different from its Hungarian counterpart, whose function is in line with the Dept. of Homeland Security
disagree Ildiko Santana : Homeland Security: Nemzetbiztonság. BELÜGY > BEL-: internal + ÜGY(ek): affair(s).
2 days 1 hr
You are wrong Ildikó. Department of Defense is the Honvédelmi Mininsztérium. Homeland Security is a new federal agency with function closely similar to Hungarian Belügyminisztérium. Belügyi is a colloquial form for belügyminisztériumi. Dept. of Interior.
Something went wrong...
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