May 18, 2009 19:58
15 yrs ago
German term
politische Sonntagsredner
German to English
Social Sciences
Government / Politics
Newspaper article
The article in Austria's Der Standard is about the European Union and the context is as follows:
Der für alle ersichtliche Zweck der Union, den die Bürger mit ihrer Skepsis so vehement einfordern, definiert unter anderem, wie viel außenpolitische Souveränität die Mitglieder nach Brüssel abgeben wollen. Er definiert, wie viel sozialpolitische Kompetenzen, die von ***politischen Sonntagsrednern*** von der Union so gerne eingefordert werden, ihr tatsächlich auch zugestanden werden.
Would "political proselytisers" work here or am I on the wrong track?
Thank you for any help you can spare.
Sara
Der für alle ersichtliche Zweck der Union, den die Bürger mit ihrer Skepsis so vehement einfordern, definiert unter anderem, wie viel außenpolitische Souveränität die Mitglieder nach Brüssel abgeben wollen. Er definiert, wie viel sozialpolitische Kompetenzen, die von ***politischen Sonntagsrednern*** von der Union so gerne eingefordert werden, ihr tatsächlich auch zugestanden werden.
Would "political proselytisers" work here or am I on the wrong track?
Thank you for any help you can spare.
Sara
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | political soapbox speaker |
swisstell
|
| 4 +2 | Sunday soapbox orator |
Kim Metzger
|
| 4 | political rabble-rousers |
Susan Welsh
|
| 4 | tub-thumping orators |
Charles Rothwell (X)
|
| 3 | political dreamers |
Stephen Sadie
|
Change log
May 18, 2009 23:10: Kim Metzger changed "Field" from "Other" to "Social Sciences"
May 19, 2009 07:34: Steffen Walter changed "Term asked" from "politischen Sonntagsrednern " to "politische Sonntagsredner"
Proposed translations
+2
5 hrs
German term (edited):
politischen Sonntagsrednern
Selected
political soapbox speaker
and "political" is in no way redundant as there are many other types of soapbox speakers, e.g. as anyone who ever listened to the Hyde Park speakers in London, knows.
(This answer was the first provided and gathered 3 "agrees" before being "inadvertently" deleted.)
(This answer was the first provided and gathered 3 "agrees" before being "inadvertently" deleted.)
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Erich Friese
: spot on....!
5 hrs
|
|
thanks, Erich
|
|
| agree |
Michele Johnson
: What about just soapbox politicians? When you're on your soapbox, you're already telling people what to do, so the speaking/speaker part is a bit redundant for me/ Oh no, you did the legwork so all for you my dear :)
7 hrs
|
|
thank you, Michele. Your suggestion might be worth considering. Therefore I invite you to submit it as your separate input.
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you very much for the SwissTell/Johnson solution. Sara."
5 mins
Susan Welsh
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
Psychology, economics, politics
Native in: English 
Works in: Russian to English, German to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
7
German term (edited):
politischen Sonntagsrednern
political rabble-rousers
I think yours is okay, but this is a bit more sarcastic. Proselytizers has more of a religious ring to it, which could also be appropriate in context. (Sonntag)
Note from asker:
| Susan, thank you for getting the ball rolling. Your option has provided me with some decent inspiration for other parts of this text. |
13 mins
Stephen Sadie
Germany
Germany
Native in English
Works in field
Germany
Practical business experience, reliable
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, English to German
Related KudoZ points
:
19
German term (edited):
politischen Sonntagsrednern
political dreamers
googles OK
Note from asker:
| Thanks for your help, Stephen. |
+2
29 mins
Kim Metzger
Mexico
Mexico
Native in English
Works in field
Mexico
Committed to Quality and Service
Native in: English (Variant: US)
Works in: German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
252
German term (edited):
politischen Sonntagsrednern
Sunday soapbox orator
You wouldn't need to translate "politisch" because that's implied.
http://www.dericsonpr.blogspot.com/
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2009-05-18 20:37:45 GMT)
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"The picture of a person, seated, spouting opinions with no responsibility for their consequences if undertaken, is also expressed by 'armchair strategist.' However, 'park-bench orator' has a more benign connotation, and is less noisy that 'soapbox orator.' William Safire
http://tinyurl.com/oxu576
http://www.dericsonpr.blogspot.com/
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2009-05-18 20:37:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"The picture of a person, seated, spouting opinions with no responsibility for their consequences if undertaken, is also expressed by 'armchair strategist.' However, 'park-bench orator' has a more benign connotation, and is less noisy that 'soapbox orator.' William Safire
http://tinyurl.com/oxu576
Note from asker:
| Kim, thank you for your input. I didn't want to relinquish the word "political" in this instance, but your Safire link is excellent and I appreciate your help. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Lancashireman
: You’re right to retain the ‘Sunday’ prefix here. It could be a reference to the weekly (as opposed to ‘daily’) press or to amateurs (in the same sense as ‘Sunday drivers’). In any case, it is more important than the redundant ‘political’ element.
2 hrs
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|
Wasn't sure about 'Sunday' but I think you've got a good point.
|
|
| agree |
writeaway
: nice
6 hrs
|
1 hr
Charles Rothwell (X)
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
Related KudoZ points
:
12
German term (edited):
politischen Sonntagsrednern
tub-thumping orators
At the time the expression was first recorded — in the Cromwellian period of English history, roughly the 1650s — the allusion was to nonconformist preachers. There may be a connection here with the literal tub-thumping of an outdoor orator using an inverted tub as an informal lectern, or perhaps the practice of converting wash-tubs into improvised drums during processions or demonstrations.
Example sentence:
Demagoguery by tub-thumping oratory became the norm since the parliamentary tradition rooted in India and Sri Lanka.
Thumper - 1. A speaker or preacher who for emphasis thumps the pulpit; a violent or declamatory preacher or orator; a ranter.
Reference:
Note from asker:
| Charles, this is a fine alternative that I shall save for a worthy occasion. Thank you. |
Discussion
@Noss: wenn Sie bewußt beide abdecken wollen ist Ihre Wahl sicher elegant. Danke für die Rückmeldung.
@Timm: Die Analogie sehe ich hier nur eingeschränkt, da "Sonntagsreden" nach meinem Empfinden eigenständige Bedeutung haben und ohne Bezugnahme auf "Sonntagsfahrer" benutzt werden. Die Sonntagsrede muß nicht dümmlich und kann durchaus intelligent/staatstragend sein; kennzeichned ist nur, daß sie bewußt abseits der Realisierbarkeit gehalten wird. Schöne Grüße auf die andere Teichseite.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sonntagsfahrer
habe ich einen "Sonntagsredner" spontan für einen politisch unerfahrenen Redner gehalten: für jemanden, der nur ausnahmsweise Reden - und dann inhaltslose oder dümmliche- Reden schwingt