Glossary entry (derived from question below)
German term or phrase:
nicht zu vertretenden Gründen
English translation:
reasons not imputable to us
Added to glossary by
Rebecca Holmes
Apr 28, 2002 12:20
22 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term
United States
nicht zu vertretenden Gründen
German to English
Bus/Financial
Law (general)
supervisory board report
Eine Akquisition ...scheiterte aus nicht von uns zu vertretenden Gründen...
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Dec 16, 2010 10:50: Steffen Walter changed "Field (specific)" from "(none)" to "Law (general)"
Proposed translations
+6
22 mins
Beate Lutzebaeck
New Zealand
New Zealand
Native in German
&
English
Specializes in field
New Zealand
Double qualification in law (Germany/NZ)
Native in: German 
, English
Works in: English to German, German to English, French to German, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
278
Selected
not imputable; not attributable
I don't think that "beyond our control" really fits here (rather, this is the usual parlance in force majeure clauses). A party/person may have (a degree of) control over certain aspects or circumstances, but will nevertheless not be responsible or liable for the outcome (a crucial distinction in many law cases) - this is the underlying concept of "nicht zu vertretenden Gründen".
Suggested translation: "The acquisition ... failed for reasons not imputable [not attributable] to us." Or: "... for reasons that cannot be attributed to us."
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Note added at 2002-04-28 12:47:03 (GMT)
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\"... for reasons that cannot be attributed / that are not attributable [imputable] to ourselves.\" - to make it sound a bit more high-brow.
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Note added at 2002-04-28 23:37:16 (GMT)
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Seeing, that the meaning of \"zu vertretenden\" escapes even some native speakers of German, here a further explanation:
First of all, the phrase is standard German legalese (here used in a commercial context), I\'ve read (and used it myself) many times in my years of practising law in Germany.
Granted, the root verb may be \"vertreten\", but there is a hugh difference between saying \"nicht von uns vertretenen Gründen\" and \"nicht von uns ZU vertretenDen Gründen\" - subtle and easily overlooked, but crucial. (This is not even a matter of complicated legalese, but simple grammar.) \"Not represented, agreed, followed ... by us\" may be the correct translation of \"nicht von uns vertretenen Gründen\" (a simple participle), but \"ZU vertretenDen\" turns this verb into an imperative construction, literally meaning reasons we have to be responsible, liable for.
This usage of the verb \"to represent\" is based on the German legal concept of Vertretenmüssen = Einstehen für eine Rechtsverletzung (here comes the imperative, the obligation, in again), one of the characteristic features of Verschulden (fault) resulting in liability.
Suggested translation: "The acquisition ... failed for reasons not imputable [not attributable] to us." Or: "... for reasons that cannot be attributed to us."
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Note added at 2002-04-28 12:47:03 (GMT)
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\"... for reasons that cannot be attributed / that are not attributable [imputable] to ourselves.\" - to make it sound a bit more high-brow.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-04-28 23:37:16 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Seeing, that the meaning of \"zu vertretenden\" escapes even some native speakers of German, here a further explanation:
First of all, the phrase is standard German legalese (here used in a commercial context), I\'ve read (and used it myself) many times in my years of practising law in Germany.
Granted, the root verb may be \"vertreten\", but there is a hugh difference between saying \"nicht von uns vertretenen Gründen\" and \"nicht von uns ZU vertretenDen Gründen\" - subtle and easily overlooked, but crucial. (This is not even a matter of complicated legalese, but simple grammar.) \"Not represented, agreed, followed ... by us\" may be the correct translation of \"nicht von uns vertretenen Gründen\" (a simple participle), but \"ZU vertretenDen\" turns this verb into an imperative construction, literally meaning reasons we have to be responsible, liable for.
This usage of the verb \"to represent\" is based on the German legal concept of Vertretenmüssen = Einstehen für eine Rechtsverletzung (here comes the imperative, the obligation, in again), one of the characteristic features of Verschulden (fault) resulting in liability.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you everyone - I had a difficult time choosing one single option - they all sounded good. I decided to use "reasons not imputable to us" as it had the most agrees and sounds like comfortably vague legalese. Thanks again!"
+4
4 mins
Mary Worby
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
Friendly, reliable and accurate!
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
31
reasons beyond our control
literally: reasons for which we were not responsible
HTH
Mary
HTH
Mary
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Elisabeth Ghysels
3 mins
|
| agree |
jerrie
: Excellent!
4 mins
|
| agree |
Jeannie Graham
7 mins
|
| agree |
Martina Ley
: vertreten hier im Sinne von verschulden, verursachen, verantworten ... Alles andere stimmt nicht!
1 hr
|
| neutral |
Dr. Fred Thomson
: I think your answer would be correct if the noun were "Umstaenden" instead of "Gruenden." The difference is subtle,but I have to go with Darien on this one.
1 hr
|
| neutral |
Roddy Stegemann
: Please see below.
3 hrs
|
+1
18 mins
on grounds/reasons we could not agree too
I think "beyony our control" does not reflect what is said here.
Let's analyse this (impossible) sentence.
Die Akquisition kam nicht zustande.
Sie scheiterte aus Gründen/wegen einer Situation/infolge von Vorschlägen, die wir nicht vertreten konnten.
Die Sache lag also nicht ausser Kontrolle, sondern der Entscheid, nicht zu akquirieren, wurde bewusst gefällt..
That is the way I understand it.
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Note added at 2002-04-28 15:58:12 (GMT)
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I founbd this on \"Represented\" on a pdf document. It would have the same meaning as \"upheld by us\"
Faced with the remand of part of its 1986 final rule, Interior published a notice of
proposed rulemaking in 1991 to respond to the issues raised in the Ohio decision. In this notice,
Interior stated that the damage claim would consist of both restoration costs and \"all reliably
calculated values, including option and existence values ....\"27 To do so, Interior proposed the
concept of \"compensable value.\" Interior explained that \"[c]ompensable value encompasses all of
the public economic values associated with an injured resource, including use values and nonuse
values such as option, existence and bequest values ....\" The advantage of the compensable value
concept is that it \"allows for many different reasons why the public may value natural resources --
including reasons not represented by market prices.\"28
Let's analyse this (impossible) sentence.
Die Akquisition kam nicht zustande.
Sie scheiterte aus Gründen/wegen einer Situation/infolge von Vorschlägen, die wir nicht vertreten konnten.
Die Sache lag also nicht ausser Kontrolle, sondern der Entscheid, nicht zu akquirieren, wurde bewusst gefällt..
That is the way I understand it.
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Note added at 2002-04-28 15:58:12 (GMT)
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I founbd this on \"Represented\" on a pdf document. It would have the same meaning as \"upheld by us\"
Faced with the remand of part of its 1986 final rule, Interior published a notice of
proposed rulemaking in 1991 to respond to the issues raised in the Ohio decision. In this notice,
Interior stated that the damage claim would consist of both restoration costs and \"all reliably
calculated values, including option and existence values ....\"27 To do so, Interior proposed the
concept of \"compensable value.\" Interior explained that \"[c]ompensable value encompasses all of
the public economic values associated with an injured resource, including use values and nonuse
values such as option, existence and bequest values ....\" The advantage of the compensable value
concept is that it \"allows for many different reasons why the public may value natural resources --
including reasons not represented by market prices.\"28
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
gangels (X)
31 mins
|
| disagree |
Martina Ley
: vertreten hier im Sinne von verschulden, verursachen, verantworten ... Alles andere stimmt nicht!
1 hr
|
|
Wow, congratulations master! And what is your version?
|
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| neutral |
Roddy Stegemann
: Please see below
2 hrs
|
| agree |
Andrea Kopf
: Ich verstehe den Satz so wie Sie.
4 hrs
|
58 mins
failed for reasons we do not quite follow (understand)
or: ...concur in, ...reasons we must disagree with or:...for reasons we cannot subscribe to
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Maya Jurt
: Cannot subscribe to
4 mins
|
|
mley: No kidding. Translate SENSE, not mechanically from your little dictionary
|
|
| disagree |
Martina Ley
: vertreten hier im Sinne von verschulden, verursachen, verantworten ... Alles andere stimmt nicht!
25 mins
|
| neutral |
Roddy Stegemann
: I find this difficult to accept. Please see below.
2 hrs
|
-1
3 hrs
Roddy Stegemann
United States
United States
Native in English
Works in field
United States
Search HKLNA!
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, Japanese to English, French to English, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
30
for reasons not represented by us
According to Halsbury's Law of Hong Kong "A representation is a statement made by one party (the representor) to another party (the representee) which relates, by way of affirmation, denial, description, or otherwise, to a matter of fact or present intention."
In other words a representation is a mere statement that relates to a fact or intention, the latter of which may be imputed by the courts. The representation itself is neither imputed, nor is it imputable.
Common law is the basis for most contract law where common law is permitted as a basis for adjudication. Hong Kong is a common law region of China.
I know this from personal experience.
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Note added at 2002-04-28 15:44:22 (GMT)
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http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/trial/contract-law.html#...
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Note added at 2002-04-29 01:56:18 (GMT)
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A further note to Darien\'s comment: The author is citing reasons which the firm did and would not \'represent\'. Once again, \'representations\' are not imputed, nor are they imputable.
In other words a representation is a mere statement that relates to a fact or intention, the latter of which may be imputed by the courts. The representation itself is neither imputed, nor is it imputable.
Common law is the basis for most contract law where common law is permitted as a basis for adjudication. Hong Kong is a common law region of China.
I know this from personal experience.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-04-28 15:44:22 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/trial/contract-law.html#...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-04-29 01:56:18 (GMT)
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A further note to Darien\'s comment: The author is citing reasons which the firm did and would not \'represent\'. Once again, \'representations\' are not imputed, nor are they imputable.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Maya Jurt
: See note added. This could work, I'd prefer "not upheld by us".
16 mins
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I do not disagree, but my agreement depends on whether the term 'vertreten' shares a one-to-one correspondence with 'represent' in German law.
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| disagree |
Beate Lutzebaeck
: An analysis of "zu vertretenden" would have been of more relevance. I don't disagree with your definition of "representation" - however, the operative term in German is not "zu vertreten", but "zu vertretenden".
7 hrs
|
|
Are we speaking the same language? The phrase 'zu vertretenden' is the adjective form of 'zu vertreten' before the noun 'Gruenden'. Your disagreement appears inappropriate.
|
+1
3 hrs
Cilian O'Tuama
Germany
Germany
Native in English
Germany
Quality Translations since 1986
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, English, German, and 6 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
52
...for reasons (which) we consider inappropriate/unjustified
just another option
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
gangels (X)
: That's a good one too. perhaps best of all
2 hrs
|
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