Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

Engineers Forum

English answer:

formally correct

Added to glossary by Fuad Yahya
Feb 20, 2006 11:47
18 yrs ago
English term

Engineers Forum

English Art/Literary Linguistics Grammar/spelling/usage
Let us say, this is a forum meant for engineers. Would the correct phrase for such a forum be

Engineers Forum
Engineer's Forum (with an apostrophe after engineer), or
Engineers' Forum (with an apostrophe after engineers)
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Oana Apetrei

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Discussion

Balasubramaniam L. (asker) Feb 23, 2006:
Just for the records, there is a companion forum discussion on this topic, which future referers of this question should also consult for additional clarification. The url is this:

http://www.proz.com/topic/42823

Grading this is impossible, but I am doing it anyway and hope that you will understand. I thank you all for taking the time and trouble to explain the nuances of this question to me.
William [Bill] Gray Feb 20, 2006:
I agree with both your posts Rita, but I think that Bala probably related this under the last part of his posting area, namely "grammar/spelling/usage" :-)
RHELLER Feb 20, 2006:
Proz has many mistakes which I try to ignore :-)
RHELLER Feb 20, 2006:
this is the type of question that deserves to be posted in the linguistic forum IMO
Ken Cox Feb 20, 2006:
As for 'grammatical backing', it can be argued that the forum is *for* engineers rather than belonging to them, so the possessive is not necessary, but IMHO it most likely reflects a general trend to ignore (or abuse) the possessive in casual usage.
Ken Cox Feb 20, 2006:
IMO 'acceptable usage' depends on who you ask (some people and organisations would definitely not accept it). 'Accepted usage' is slightly different, and judging by google and general experiece I'd say that it is common if not accepted usage in the US.
Balasubramaniam L. (asker) Feb 20, 2006:
Does "engineers forum" have a grammatical backing Jack Doughty, I entirely agree with you. The reason for asking this question was just that. I had a feeling that the phrase in proZ's logo wasn't grammatically correct, but wanted to check on that. Also, this has been a question I have encontered more than once, for example, in the title of a book I was proof-reading recently, "fishermens guide to (something)". It seems so erroneous here, and I had corrected it to "fishermen's", and today I saw proz's logo, and started wondering, did I make a blunder?

Kenneth, is "engineers forum" now acceptable usage?

Responses

+2
6 hrs
Selected

formally correct

Leaving aside the issues of nuance and personal preference, all three options are formally correct. In particular "engineers forum" and "translators workplace" are formally correct.

The word "forum" is your main noun. You can modify it with a possessive:

- the engineer's forum (the singular "engineer" can be understood to mean the generic engineer, not one particular engineer); or

- the engineers' forum (the forum being attributed to engineers at large).

Or you can modify the noun "forum" with a noun-modifier. Noun-modifiers are very commonly used in English:

health insurance, tax evasion, biology professor, computer virus, birth control, diet pills, etc.

The general rule, typically taught with unwarranted rigidity to grade-school students, is that noun-modifiers are usually used in the singular form, even if the reference is clearly to a plurality:

a four-star general, a five-star hotel, a seven-course dinner, etc.

However, there are noted examples:

arms control, sales division, weapons violations charges, etc.

These examples are from the following page:

http://www.link.cs.cmu.edu/link/dict/section-AN.html

As I said, I do not wish to cast a vote on a "preferred" choice or to address the specific nuances of each choice, but to specifically address the formal correctness of these choices, and in particular to correct the notion that "Translators Workplace" is incorrect.
Peer comment(s):

agree Michael Barnett : Wow.
4 hrs
agree Heidi C : your explanation is clear and your examples speak for themselves!!!
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you very much."
2 mins

The second one

*

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 mins (2006-02-20 11:50:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or you can simply say: a forum for engineers which is less complicated.
Something went wrong...
+1
3 mins

Engineer's Forum / Engineers' Forum

I would go for these two alternatives. If you were to emphasize the Engineer as the generic term, I believe this is what you should use: the Engineer's Forum. Otherwise, both are fine.
Peer comment(s):

agree Krisztina Lelik
40 mins
Thanks!
Something went wrong...
+11
4 mins

Engineers' forum

This is the straightforward solution - although you will often find the apostrophe omitted, like in ProZ - The Translators Workplace (see the top of this page).
Peer comment(s):

agree Dave Calderhead
2 mins
agree Jack Doughty : Yes. ProZ is not setting a good example here.
3 mins
agree Alison Jenner
5 mins
agree Oana Apetrei
10 mins
agree Stefanie Sendelbach
24 mins
agree RHELLER : this is the standard correct response :-)
3 hrs
agree Alfa Trans (X)
6 hrs
agree conejo : This is right. As an editor I often feel the same way as the Asker... thinking am I missing something here?
6 hrs
agree Premium✍️
10 hrs
agree Seema Ugrankar
12 hrs
agree Romanian Translator (X)
2 days 7 hrs
Something went wrong...
+4
6 mins

engineers' forum

because it is a forum for more than one engineer, hence the plural possessive
Peer comment(s):

agree Oana Apetrei
9 mins
Thanks, Oana (:-{)>
agree RHELLER : quite right, sir :-)
3 hrs
Thanks, Rita (:-{)> - or should I say "Thank you Ma'am"?
agree Premium✍️
10 hrs
Thanks (:-{)>
agree Maria Karra
13 hrs
Thanks, Maria (:-{)>
Something went wrong...
+1
9 mins

the third one: Engineers' Forum

for sure
Peer comment(s):

agree Oana Apetrei
7 mins
Something went wrong...
+1
10 mins

engineers forum OR engineers' forum

If you use the possessive, IMO it should be engineers' because it is for engineers collectively.
However, a google scan using 'engineers forum' and similar terms (such as 'artists forum', 'users forum', etc.) indicates the possisive and non-possessive forms are both common.

You could also call it 'engineering forum' if that suits the context.
Peer comment(s):

agree RHELLER : you should know :-) but Engineering Forum solves the problem as does Proz Translation Workplace
3 hrs
Thanks -- good suggestions
Something went wrong...
+1
39 mins

all three are possible!!

I apologise for adding yet another answer, but it's the only way I can get enough space to write what I wish to say.

If you are thinking of engineers as a profession ("The Engineer") then you may wish to write (especially, but not exclusively, if you are referring to their monthly journal/magazine):
THE ENGINEER'S FORUM
http://bsnldeforum.tripod.com/

If you are thinking of all engineers from an area who are coming to a conference/forum, you may write:
THE ENGINEERS' FORUM
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/forum/about.htm

If you are thinking purely generically, as with The Translators Workplace (mentioned by another answerer), you may dispense with the apostrophe altogether, because here it is a forum FOR engineers and not possessed by them, you may write:
THE ENGINEERS FORUM
http://www.asme.org/communities/EarlyCareer/Young_Engineers_...


In other words, the eventual usage will depend on the context, which we do not have here. You may choose yourself from the proffered alternatives.

Hope this helps.
Peer comment(s):

agree Maria Karra
13 hrs
Thank you, Maria
Something went wrong...
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